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Re: Ignition? Or? 641

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03-19-2013 09:48:00

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My 861 will turn over without the key on. It won't start, but the engine turns over. As far as I know, it hasn't ever been modified. It has a 12vt system.

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03-19-2013 10:27:51

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 Re: Ignition? Or? 641 in reply to Quietwater, 03-19-2013 09:48:00  
If it"s gas powered and 12V it"s been modified.

All of the X01 series tractors (gas & diesel) had a 4 post starter relay. One big post connects to the battery (it doesn"t matter which one) and the other connects to the starter. One small post (again it doesn"t matter which one) connects to the side of the junction block that is "hot" only when the key is ON and the other one connects to the starter button on the transmission for the ground. If the key is ON and you push the starter button the coil inside the relay (solenoid) energizes and pulls the contactor across the two big posts sending power to the starter. If the key is turned OFF pushing the starter button does nothing because there is no power to the coil inside the relay (solenoid).

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03-19-2013 10:05:00

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 Re: Ignition? Or? 641 in reply to Quietwater, 03-19-2013 09:48:00  
My orig 641, 6volt still has the orig key and switch but it won't do anything (not even crank) with the key off.

Which brings me to a question, on tractors that the key/switch doesn't do anything, how do you turn the tractor off? (I'm just curious)

I know my JD 3010 has a pull knob to turn the tractor off/kill it.

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03-19-2013 10:21:24

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 Re: Ignition? Or? 641 in reply to EarlyBronco, 03-19-2013 10:05:00  
On the ones that are set up with a key switch and the starter button that works with or with out the key turned on the 2 circuits are independent of each other. The key does in fact turn the ignition on and off but does nothing to the starter circuit

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03-19-2013 09:56:54

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 Re: Ignition? Or? 641 in reply to Quietwater, 03-19-2013 09:48:00  
Guess you and I have odd tractors then from what the other guy said. Back when we first got this 841 it would spin over with or with out the key on but it has been since wired so that you no longer use the safety transmission start button

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03-19-2013 10:14:09

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 Re: Ignition? Or? 641 in reply to old, 03-19-2013 09:56:54  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Nothing necessarily "odd" about those....just had 50 years of "tom, dick, & harry" messing with them. After many hands & 50 years, 'original' is hard to find! :wink:

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03-19-2013 10:23:35

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 Re: Ignition? Or? 641 in reply to JMOR, 03-19-2013 10:14:09  
Yep hear you on that one. This 841 I have has a starter button on the transmission that has not worked in years and it was a ford dealer who unhooked it and set up a starter button right above the key switch so yep even a dealer can mess one up real good

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