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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
Order Ford 600 Parts Online

1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over

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TM_1957Ford600

02-10-2013 10:43:09




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Ok so I attempted to cranks my project for the first time since I have been working on it and when I hit the starter button...nothing. Here are the steps I have taken up to this point with the help of the shop manual.

New battery - 6v fully charged
New keyed ignition
New 6v solenoid
New battery cables
Ran down all wiring and they are in the correct locations

Only thing u haven"t tried is a new voltage regulator and starter button. Even when I turn the ignition key...crickets! No click or nothing. I am getting some spark when I touch a screw driver across terminals on the volt regulator. That"s about it. Any ideas on what to try next

Thanks in advance

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Sean in PA

02-18-2013 10:51:25




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to TM_1957Ford600, 02-10-2013 10:43:09  
Glad you got it running. I would be concerned about the "gunk" that shot out of the #3 spark plug hole though.
Earlier you said that it hadn't run in about 15 years, and now you say that gunk shot out of one of the cylinders. How long was that "gunk" in there, and what was the nature of the "gunk"?
Might be 15 year old coolant from an old cavitation hole, and it had hydrolocked back then, and that's why it sat so long without being run (really bad). Or it could just be from the exhaust valve sitting open all that time and rainwater and other "gunk" got in through the exhaust manifold while it sat (not quite so bad, but still bad).

If it was mine, I would pull the head just to see what's really going on in there.

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Hobo,NC

02-12-2013 17:51:47




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to carman, 02-10-2013 10:43:09  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

A voltmeter would be of some help ( I know they are a rare tool but they do exist tho few know how to use one,, it was not a requirement to know how to use one on the Guru certification test )... Google voltage drop test...



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chucksoliver77

02-11-2013 16:47:08




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to TM_1957Ford600, 02-10-2013 10:43:09  
when i did my 641 i had the same problem, it was the starter button. try pulling the cover off the wire that hooks to the starter button and with the key on and trans in neutral take a screw driver from the starter button wire to the trans cover and see if it will crank, if it does the starter button is bad. you need to get through the paint to make a ground for this to work. chuck



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TM_1957Ford600

02-10-2013 14:44:33




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to TM_1957Ford600, 02-10-2013 10:43:09  
Ok I tried what you said...and nothing. I used a screw driver to touch small prong on front of solenoid to prong with wire going to starter...and nothing

The key switch and solenoid were purchased from this site.

One thing that I did by accident was touch the prongs of the ammeter against the steering shaft and it sparked.

It appears all why wiring is in the correct location based on the ago manual diagram.

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old

02-10-2013 18:09:06




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to TM_1957Ford600, 02-10-2013 14:44:33  
As I said there is a starter side and a battery side to that solenoid and if you hook it up back wards it will never work. To test things do this. Pull the battery cable off the solenoid and then with it out of gear touch the cable to the starter stud. If it spins over when you do that good chance you have the solenoid on back wards



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TM_1957Ford600

02-11-2013 12:16:51




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to old, 02-10-2013 18:09:06  

Here are pics of how it is currently wired

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old

02-11-2013 13:54:45




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to TM_1957Ford600, 02-11-2013 12:16:51  
As I said switch the 2 cables around put the one from the battery to the one where the start is and the other to that other side and it is likely to work



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TM_1957Ford600

02-11-2013 14:20:21




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to old, 02-11-2013 13:54:45  
Thanks - I will try this when i get home this evening. Just confusing the way the wiring diagram showed in the manual.

Should I carry the yellow wire with it when I swap sides?



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old

02-11-2013 14:25:54




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to TM_1957Ford600, 02-11-2013 14:20:21  
Yes the yellow wire most likely is the ignition wire so if you do not carry it with the battery cable you will have it start then die as soon as you let off the starter button. The 3 wire solenoid has a battery side and starter side to it and if hooked up back wards it just flat out will not work due to the way it is wired inside



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TM_1957Ford600

02-11-2013 18:04:58




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to old, 02-11-2013 14:25:54  
I feel like I am getting somewhere now. Here is what I discovered.

Starter switch works, but I believe the solenoid I bought is bad or the wrong one. The small prong location on the solenoid has an "s", assuming for start inscribed on the solenoid.

So I found the original 3pt solenoid and tried it (small prong has "I" inscribed on it. I hooked it up the same way and I got a click (coming from solenoid) when I pressed the starter button. So I proceeded to hook up the starter wire to the other side and I still got the click but its like I am not getting power transferred to the starter wire.

One other funny thing is that the starter button will supply power when pushed to the solenoid regardless if the ignition key is turned on or off.

Getting closer but still not there!

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old

02-11-2013 19:11:03




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to TM_1957Ford600, 02-11-2013 18:04:58  
Well you have to back up a tad bit. The factory starter button is a ground type set up it does not give voltage it supplies a ground which is how the ford solenoids worked on the old ford tractors. If you do as I said and try the cable to cable thing and if the starter spins your sure it is a solenoid problem if it does not spin then a starter problem. If you need help that may hit home better e-mail me an I will then give you my home phone number. Found a long time ago some times that help a person more then what I can do here and have had many call me for one on one phone calls

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TM_1957Ford600

02-11-2013 17:33:47




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to old, 02-11-2013 14:25:54  
Ok guys I tried both of your suggestions. The only time I got any type of electrical sound was when I accidentally touch the main battery wire to the small prong on the solenoid. You coukd just hear the solenoid kick. I did this when I was swamping sides.

I swamped sides of batt wire and starter wire and got nothing



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old

02-11-2013 17:58:46




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to TM_1957Ford600, 02-11-2013 17:33:47  
Pull the starter side cable off the solenoid. Now take that and touch the battery side with it.. If it turns over when you do that then you have a bad new solenoid. If it does not turn over check starter ground and if that does not fix it take the starter to an auto parts store and have it checked it maybe bad



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TM_1957Ford600

02-16-2013 18:16:32




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to old, 02-11-2013 17:58:46  
Well got her running after about 15 years! Thanks for the help everyone!



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Dave in MS

02-17-2013 15:59:34




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to TM_1957Ford600, 02-16-2013 18:16:32  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

So what did you that got it going?



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TM_57Ford600

02-17-2013 16:10:24




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to Dave in MS, 02-17-2013 15:59:34  
First thing was that I bought a new (bad) solenoid

Then I called OLD and he helped me diagnose some small electrical issues. I was able to get the starter to hit and it acted like it was in a bind. I pulled started and confirmed that it was working.

The next thing I tried was turning over the motor manually with the plugs out. I was able to turn it over so far in one direction before it stopped, same with the other direction. I new this was not right so I kept working it by turning the motor over by grabbing the fan.

Finally a bunch of old gunk shot out of #3 plug and it began to spin freely! Bolt starter and carb up and after adjusting on carb it hit and ran.

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Dave in MS

02-18-2013 08:24:19




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to TM_57Ford600, 02-17-2013 16:10:24  
Glad you got it running. We all owe "Old".



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soundguy

02-10-2013 15:02:03




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to TM_1957Ford600, 02-10-2013 14:44:33  
touch the small 3rd prong to chassis... anything?

didn't install it backwards did you and have the bat lead on the side meant for the starter eh?



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old

02-10-2013 11:36:05




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to TM_1957Ford600, 02-10-2013 10:43:09  
If you have the correct 3 post ford solenoid you may have it hooked up back wards. If you do it will not work since you ground the small post to make it do its thing



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soundguy

02-10-2013 11:28:41




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 Re: 1957 600 Project - Will not Turn Over in reply to TM_1957Ford600, 02-10-2013 10:43:09  
wow... this post is all over.

1, do you have a non oem key-turn to start igntion?

is so.. the oem solenoid will NOT work for you.

also.. if you have a 'car' type solenoid.. the oem thumb button starter will not work for you.

voltage regulator has nothing to do with starting.. not sure why people investigate rreplacing it when their tractor won't start. might as well check tires too?

pull plugs.. add a lil oil down them..

now.. put in neutral. block clutch.. not jumper around solenoid with a big pair of pliers.

does she spin over freely?

if so.. good.

plugs were out to check hydro lock.

oil was for a lil lube.

now.. if she spun.. put plugs in.

depending on what type of solenoid you have.. you will either have to ground a 3rd terminal, power a 3rd terminal, or add power and ground to a 3rd and 4th terminal.

units needing power to a 3rd and a 3/4 'bypass' style solenoid, you cannot use the thumb button ( ditch the solenoid )... these typically use a key to start setup.

post back some details

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