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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
Order Ford 5000 Parts Online

5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block

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randyc1983

02-08-2013 17:10:02




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Looking for a head gasket number. The two the local dealer has gotten have been wrong. I have a diesel 5000. The early head gasket they got me was for a 4.2 bore engine. The new one matched the bores but the other holes were all wrong. It is a 1968 tractor unit number 8f26b. They haven't figured it out yet. And i know the right one exists because i have the old one.




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randyc1983

02-15-2013 18:32:27




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-08-2013 17:10:02  
Its running. The one from ebay worked it had a ford number stamped in it. Took it to the dealer and it subs out to the later style so I guess I am over analyzing things again. I still see some differences but gave up and put it together. Probably my perfectionist nature that finds these problems. I will get it out of the shop tomorrow and take some pics.



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Sean in PA

02-13-2013 14:34:08




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-08-2013 17:10:02  
Pete, thanks for posting. After reading through my manuals, it loos like only the Select-O-Speed transmission models came with the "multi-speed" PTO options (540/1000 and 540/1000/ground speed), so I'm guessing that the 4 is for 540 rpm independent PTO with the S-O-S transmission, as my 4000 S-O-S has a 4 and it's got the 540 rpm only PTO, and the 7 is for 540 rpm independent PTO with the 8 speed manual.

If anyone has a later 4000 or a 5000 with a manual transmission and 540 rpm independent PTO that has a 4 in the fifth position of their model number, let me know.

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Sean in PA

02-12-2013 04:21:01




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-08-2013 17:10:02  
Flat top fenders and a hand brake sounds like it was intended for the European market.

All 5000's should have independent PTO. A 5000 with a 540 rpm only PTO should have a 4 in the 5th position of the model number. A dual speed 540 & 1000 rpm model should have a 5. A 540/1000/Ground speed should have a 6, and a 1000 rpm only should have an 8. Does yours have a second lever/handle farther back, behind your left heel for ground speed?

Also, toward the front of the engine from where you found those casting numbers in your picture, there should be some numbers stamped into the metal, not raised up. The raised up cast date code is the date that the block was cast. The stamped number up at the front of the block will tell you when the engine was assembled.

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randyc1983

02-13-2013 16:08:40




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to Sean in PA, 02-12-2013 04:21:01  

Picture of the pto lever it moves back and forth, on and off.



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randyc1983

02-13-2013 15:56:44




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to Sean in PA, 02-12-2013 04:21:01  

Found these numbers stamped on the block near the casting numbers. E025410.



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randyc1983

02-12-2013 20:10:29




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to Sean in PA, 02-12-2013 04:21:01  
Ok. I will look for those numbers. I never use the pto much so the controls for it are not to familiar to me i will look next trip to the shop. I hope i get it fixed. It is my backup feed tractor and I have already needed it once since tearing it down.



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861Pete

02-13-2013 13:02:11




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-12-2013 20:10:29  
I also have a 5000 with the flap top fenders and a serial number starting with a B . As far as I can tell it was made in Basildon England. It also has a 7 as the 5th number which is supposed to be the pto type. I can't find any information on the 7

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randyc1983

02-13-2013 16:11:48




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to 861Pete, 02-13-2013 13:02:11  

Pic of my fender. I havent found it in any salvage yards or in any parts books.



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randyc1983

02-13-2013 16:13:52




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-13-2013 16:11:48  

The fender again



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861Pete

02-14-2013 02:37:41




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-13-2013 16:13:52  
Randy, Would your fender look like this ?

I found this on a Bing search. Pete



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randyc1983

02-14-2013 18:14:53




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to 861Pete, 02-14-2013 02:37:41  
Thats the first fender i have seen that looks the same. Been five years looking.



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861Pete

02-15-2013 04:42:27




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-14-2013 18:14:53  
I'll try to find some more info on it. Pete



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randyc1983

02-15-2013 18:35:01




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to 861Pete, 02-15-2013 04:42:27  
That would be neat. Let me know what you find.



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randyc1983

02-13-2013 16:03:09




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to 861Pete, 02-13-2013 13:02:11  
Nice looking tractor. Looks close. My fenders dont come down in the front like those and the support bracket looks different And my rear wheels are pressed steel center non adjustable. Other than that thats pretty close



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RickB

02-10-2013 10:01:46




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-08-2013 17:10:02  
I must be missing something. I don't see a single thing here that makes me think that 87800517 gasket won't work just fine.



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randyc1983

02-11-2013 22:41:50




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to RickB, 02-10-2013 10:01:46  
The main problem with the newer style head gasket is in the front. The water passage and the first pushrod opening will not seal. Water will get Into the crankcase. The gasket for the old style block fits perfect. But it wont seal the combustion chamber because the bore size is different. I am sure they made this tractor and engine at the same time. I have an old head gasket that proves to me that im not crazy. I just cant find a number to get a new one. When the one i ordered from ebay shows up it will be right. I hope.

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Sean in PA

02-10-2013 06:12:23




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-08-2013 17:10:02  
Randy - I'm curious. What type of PTO does your tractor have? The model number on your sticker says E1017C, which means 5000 series general purpose ag chassis, diesel engine, and 8 speed transmission, but the 5th position is for the PTO type, and a 7 doesn't show up anywhere in my documentation. I'm guessing that it's either 540 rpm plus ground speed without the 1000 rpm speed, or 1000 rpm plus ground speed without the 540 rpm speed.

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randyc1983

02-11-2013 22:30:20




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to Sean in PA, 02-10-2013 06:12:23  
Its got a 540 shaft. It is operated by a lever on the side near the foot rest. Seems to have a hydraulic clutch if i remember correctly. I never used the pto much. This tractor has a set of flat top fenders that are not in any of the parts books i have found. It has non adjustable rear wheels It has a hand brake on the right side. I think maybe this thing was a Prototype or intended for somewhere overseas. Anyway i have investigated everywhere i know to look and its an oddball

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THE LIMEY

02-10-2013 02:53:04




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-08-2013 17:10:02  
Had exactly the same problem and posted my troubles here on the forum.
Found that by using the correct gasket for the age of the tractor my pistons hit the fire rings at TDC.
Used the latest thicker gasket with the larger bores to overcome this. Have had the engine running for 20 minutes and all is okay.
As to the extra holes this only appears to be a problem on the injection pump side of the engine, so when fitting the gasket i put a small smear of sealant here and here only, no where near the bores.
The other tip is to make sure you have the correct thick washers under the head bolts, these help spread the clamping force to ensure a better seal.

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nh014

02-09-2013 07:33:21




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-08-2013 17:10:02  
You have not indicated what part number you received, but FNH service bulletin 7/93 - T1 indicates a new head gasket (part number F1NN-6051-BA) was released for installation on 4-cylinder 4.4" bore engines with 1/2" head bolts. F1NN-6051-BA supercedes to 87800517.

Your 5000 has 1/2" head bolts as the 9/16" head bolts didn't come into production until 9/1/1987.



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Bern

02-08-2013 18:57:29




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-08-2013 17:10:02  
What do you mean when you say "the other holes were all wrong"? Which holes did not line up? Keep in mind that not all the holes in a gasket will line up perfectly with the holes in the block and/or head. Sometimes holes in the block will not even be drilled in the gasket. This is for cooling flow routing purposes.

The most important thing is that the thickness is correct for your piston protrusion.

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randyc1983

02-09-2013 06:10:56




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to Bern, 02-08-2013 18:57:29  
There is a lot of difference in the two. Looking at the two its apparent that they cant be interchanged. I need the older style gasket with a 4.4 inch bore



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Bern

02-09-2013 10:30:28




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-09-2013 06:10:56  
A picture about right now would be nice.



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randyc1983

02-09-2013 12:14:20




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to Bern, 02-09-2013 10:30:28  
Lets try this. Lol. Fun. Head gasket 87800517 is what the book says fits. The pattern and shape of the push rod openings, oil gallery and water passages are completely wrong. The bore size is right.

Head gasket 82845203 fits earlier model tractor with 4.2 bore. The pattern of the surrounding openings matches my block but the fire rings stick out over the piston.

My old head gasket. With no number anywhere to be found matches everything great. It worked. I need a new one. Lol.

I have numbers off of the block. Unit numbers for the tractor and will try attaching these pics so you can see and hopefully someone else can feel as crazy as me.

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randyc1983

02-09-2013 12:56:06




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-09-2013 12:14:20  

The gasket it says i need in the book. Are we having fun yet. Lol.



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randyc1983

02-09-2013 12:58:53




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-09-2013 12:56:06  

The front of the gasket that its supposed to use.



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Bern

02-09-2013 18:15:16




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-09-2013 12:58:53  
Can you send a pic of the old one next to the new one? Or the new one next to the block? It looks close to me.



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randyc1983

02-09-2013 18:58:52




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to Bern, 02-09-2013 18:15:16  
I took all the new ones back. All i have right now is the old one.



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randyc1983

02-09-2013 12:50:26




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-09-2013 12:14:20  

My old head gasket. The calipers say 4.520. The front is to the top. The hole up front. Top left is the first place its different on the newer gasket. The holes along the left side are all a little different on the newer gasket. Most of the rest are pretty close.



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Bern

02-09-2013 12:39:31




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-09-2013 12:14:20  
Do you have a pic of the 87800517 head gasket? If it's as wrong as you say it is, then I am guessing it was mis-packaged.



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randyc1983

02-09-2013 12:37:57




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-09-2013 12:14:20  

The tag under hood.



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randyc1983

02-09-2013 12:32:20




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-09-2013 12:14:20  

The top view of the block



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randyc1983

02-09-2013 13:27:51




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-09-2013 12:32:20  

The block. There is a date code i believe you can see, 8d27. By the way they explain it to me the 8 means 1968. The second letter is a d which means april and the last two are 27 which was the day of the month. April 27th 1968. So i am at the end of my rope. It doesnt match the book and the two numbers i have tried dont fit.

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randyc1983

02-09-2013 13:33:10




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-09-2013 13:27:51  

Why dont they give me the number. Err.



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randyc1983

02-09-2013 13:43:02




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 Re: 5000 ford diesel 4.4 inch bore early block in reply to randyc1983, 02-09-2013 13:33:10  
I found one of these on ebay. Maybe it will fit.



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