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Order Ford 861 Parts Online

Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket

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Tom Bond

01-24-2013 18:00:29




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With the weather being so cold outside, should there be any consideration about remounting the head and torqueing it down with the parts so cold? I normally only turn on the heat in the garage when I'm out there so the block and head are really cold. Would it have any adverse affects on it after I get it together and start it up? All the parts are cleaned and just waiting to pick up the gasket set and thermostat at NAPA when they arrive. Only thing left before assembly is chase all the bolt hole threads to make sure they're clean.

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JMOR

01-28-2013 08:20:05




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 Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket in reply to Tom Bond, 01-28-2013 07:58:22  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeBe sure & let us know about coolant holes in your new gasket when it arrives.



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Will Gumbert

01-26-2013 09:13:51




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 Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket in reply to Tom Bond, 01-26-2013 08:50:42  
Well, that does appear to be a '57 172 block, according to John Smith's website info. Still, it might be nice to measure one of the bores to be sure. 134 is 3.44in and 172 is 3.90in. It might be possible to put a 134 head on a 172 engine but I don't know about that casting # shown on the head. -
Will



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JMOR

01-26-2013 10:14:26




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 Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket in reply to Will Gumbert, 01-26-2013 09:13:51  
In archives:

If it"s the Fel-Pro gasket it does block some water jackets in the block, but that hasn"t been a problem for me with cooling or the gasket working.

See my earlier post for a link on different heads & 9 gaskets!



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John in La

01-26-2013 06:50:37




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 Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket in reply to Tom Bond, 01-24-2013 18:00:29  
OK let me think out loud here for a second and see if we can figure this out.

I went to the Fel Pro site and found they gave you what felpro has listed as the correct gasket 7761-B-1. You got set HS-7761-B-2. The picture shows the gasket you have and you can see the number stamped on your gasket picture.

So now we have to wonder is that a felpro mistake or do they know something we are over looking. If it is a mistake I wonder how many have used this gasket in the past and are now posting here about over heating problems.

So just to get a better idea of the problem I looked at the gasket for the 134 motor 7632-B

and it looks more like what you need so at least felpro got it right. To bad the bore is differant and I do not know the details of that gasket or I MIGHT suggest using that gasket.
On the other hand if you look on this site or even the main Tisco parts site you will see that the 1/2 bolt gasket for the 134 and 172 is the same gasket. The gasket for the 7/16 is listed as a differant gasket for the 134 and 172 but that could be because Tisco sells a metal clad gasket for the 134 and a non-metallic gasket for the 172.
I wonder if contacting the felpro customer service and technical inquiries line at, 1-800-325-8886 would produce a answer to this problem.

Before I took anything else apart I would decide what path I was going to take. Most tractor sites sell a head gasket replacement set that only has the head gasket; valve cover; and manifold gasket. The next step up is a complete gasket set at more than twice the money. What you have is a head rebuild set. It is going to have some extra gaskets in it like the side cover. So if you go with another set you may not get a side cover gasket. But anyway that cover is just stuck on. They leak easy cause the cover gets bent so many gob it on with gasket sealer.

I do not know what path I would take. I would be very tempted to talk to felpro customer service and see if they would trade me the gasket for a 134 and try it.

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Will Gumbert

01-26-2013 07:39:43




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 Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket in reply to John in La, 01-26-2013 06:50:37  
Since the FelPro photos show a port opening for the 134 gasket and not for the 172 gasket, is there any chance this is actually a 134 motor? Tom, what casting # is on the right side of the engine block?

Also, take a close look at the shape of the combustion chamber in the head and compare it to the old and new gasket. The new gasket appears to be made for a larger chamber with a different shape. -Will
This post was edited by Will Gumbert at 08:00:16 01/26/13.

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JMOR

01-26-2013 08:38:36




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 Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket in reply to Will Gumbert, 01-26-2013 07:39:43  
Also, I have a very cloudy recollection of a change in coolant flow in this series of engines, somewhere along the way & blocking those ports may have been the way it was done. Nine different head gaskets & some head numbers in this thread:

http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ford&th=486779
This post was edited by JMOR at 09:31:44 01/26/13.



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Hobo,NC

01-26-2013 05:34:54




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 Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket in reply to Tom Bond, 01-24-2013 18:00:29  
[quote="John in La"](quoted from post at 04:12:58 01/26/13) Is that even the correct gasket?????????????????

That's a good catch :!: ,,, I have both the 7/16 and 1/2" head bolt styles rite in front of me ( Victor Reintz) Both have the rectangle hole....

3152 for 55 to 57 7/16" head bolts

5795 for 58 to 64 1/2" bolt holes

The 5795 has a steal ring around the rectangle port the other does not...

The firing ring is different on both I have never till now noticed the difference... I was under the impression the head bolt size was the only difference...
This is why I always check the old again the new :wink: Tom what is the fel-pro #

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Tom Bond

01-26-2013 06:44:37




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 Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket in reply to Hobo,NC, 01-26-2013 05:34:54  
The Fel-pro # 7761-B1. It's out of their head gasket kit # HS7761B2.



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ASEguy

01-26-2013 02:51:28




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 Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket in reply to Tom Bond, 01-24-2013 18:00:29  
The only time I am concerned about the cold is when I'm building an engine and the parts aren't all the same temperature. Checking the fit of pistons/block requires they be at the same temperature.



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John in La

01-25-2013 16:12:58




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 Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket in reply to Tom Bond, 01-24-2013 18:00:29  
Is that even the correct gasket?????????????????


But anyway that gasket will only go on one way. If it made a differance there would be FRONT stamped on the gasket.

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Will Gumbert

01-25-2013 15:45:22




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 Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket in reply to Tom Bond, 01-24-2013 18:00:29  
I think if you lay the head gasket down on the deck surface on the block, and looking at the openings in the casting, it will only go on one way. Did you decide to use some copper coat on the gasket? I'm not recommending it, just curious. You seem like a very methodical and meticulous guy with your tractor work. That's good and the knowledgeable people here will give you sound advice as they have for me. I try, but a few times I have said the wrong thing and they always set me straight! (good thing!) -Will:

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Will Gumbert

01-25-2013 13:53:36




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 Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket in reply to Tom Bond, 01-24-2013 18:00:29  
I haven't read all of the posts about the head gasket change you're working on so forgive me if this has already been discussed. At the risk of being insulting (which I definitely don't want to be) I was just wondering if you have a shop manual to refer to during re-assembly? Of course there is a correct bolt tightening sequence and torque, and other things like putting the push rods back in the original locations, etc. Just checking... :wink: -Will

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Tom Bond

01-25-2013 15:05:06




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 Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket in reply to Will Gumbert, 01-25-2013 13:53:36  
Absolutely NOT insulting at all. I can't tell how much you've all helped with this change. All the little tricks and tips come from your experiences. Yes, I have the shop manual with all the specs and I'll follow them to the "T" when reassembling. Felpro gasket set came with push rod cover gasket also so I'm going to pull that cover tonight when I do my final cleaning and thread chasing before assembly. Won't hurt and I can see whats up inside there. Gasket set came with instructions that said, "Install head gasket in direction of markings, otherwise install gasket." So, only markings on my gasket, just some lines. Which side goes to block?

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andyin ct

01-25-2013 02:28:52




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 Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket in reply to Tom Bond, 01-24-2013 18:00:29  
Did you carefully clean the block and head surfaces? I use a razor blade and scrape the surfaces. If they are not completely clean you will have problems.



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Tom Bond

01-24-2013 18:57:39




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 Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket in reply to jimf in mo, 01-24-2013 18:00:29  
Excellent point souNdguy. Thank You! I'm hoping no damage was done to bearings. Motor ran no more than 10 mins at 1000 RPMs before I caught the coolant in oil. Oil pressure was still 35 psi when at idle and no unusual noises. If no leaks, I figure I'll drain water and refill with coolant, fresh oil and filter, run it a couple days and then another oil and filter change depending on what oil condition looks like.

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soundguy

01-24-2013 18:29:29




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 Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket in reply to Tom Bond, 01-24-2013 18:00:29  
our hands are gonna worry more about the cold than the head and deck will.

slap it on. I can't say that I've ever paid attention to temps other than when painting when doing wrench turning.

just rememebr after torquing, that you need to fill rad and cooling system, then run it till warmed then retorque.. and would be a good time to double check valve settings.

me? on a issue witha head gasket? it's fill with clean water, warm up and test it like that till I was sure I had no leaks into crankcase. water in oil is bad.. coolant in oil will wipe out bearings..

if it is freezing in your area.. remamber to drain block and rad of the water, or add coolant after you test it, and then let it circulate to make sure you don't have a pocket of cold unmixed water trapped in a lower rad or block.

( IE i always test a engine assy with pure water not coolant .. just in case). DO rememebr to add coolant / or drain it if freezing though...

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