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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

High houred 8970

Author  [Modern View]
jbirnsch

12-27-2012 18:15:42
50.116.153.97



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We looked at and bought a 8970 with 9500 hours. We were told the power shift tranny was a reman replacement from CNH a little over a year ago with $30k in it. The engine was never touched which has me worried but it ran and sounded good. The rear brakes have been replaced.

Should I be worried that is has front duals on the Dana axle. We will not need them but they are included.

They have some little things to fix. The counsel adjustment doesn't move. The radio is not working. One of the flow control cables is froze up. Some knobs are missing up top.

What else do we need to look at as we only put a down payment on it.

We will be trading in the 9000 as we don't need 4 big tractors for 300 acres.

I estimate we will put on 150 hours a year on it..

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RossMN

01-04-2013 16:41:03
184.20.113.101



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to jbirnsch, 12-27-2012 18:15:42  
Just to be nosy, what did you decide to do



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jbirnsch

01-05-2013 00:46:58
99.139.203.178



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to RossMN, 01-04-2013 16:41:03  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

We bought it along with a Brent 544 gravity box. Traded in the 9000.
I talked to the service tech that did the transmission work and I have the work order. They did spend 29K and change on the transmission work and another 1600 on the rear brakes.

Hydraulic flow test looked good and pulled the magnetic plugs on the front axle. No big chunks stuck on the magnets just a little super fine metal on the end. Looked the same as our Gleaner M3 transmission drain plug this fall when I changed the oil in it.

Jacked up the front axle on each side and the king pins were not sloppy. everything seemed tight.
The 3 point was throwing a error code (F011 and F06x cant remember now) and would not move up or down. They are fixing that as well as some other minor details.

Based on the serial number it is a 95 model. Engine dyno at 270 hp. seems a little hot!

We will not be working it hard pulling a IH 24' 496 disk or our JD 235 23' wing fold disk. We eventually want to go with vertical tillage and need HP for that. Thinking about a 4 meter VT disk for next year.

We have our TW 30 for backup. Dad didn't want to drive the 9000 anymore. I used it all last fall for stalk chopping. We also used it on our Unverferth 530 gravity box. The tractor ran good but the creature comforts were lacking. Earplugs were mandatory with the Hiniker 1300 cab.

Can't afford new with only 300 acres. Priced out a T7.270 and that will never happen unless we win the lottery or corn goes to $20 bu.

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560farm

01-05-2013 01:00:07
98.159.8.21



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to jbirnsch, 01-05-2013 00:46:58  
I hope it works out for you guys. If that 9000 was an open station I would be right up to buy it just to use for play toy purposes. Don't see many 9000s around, especially here NEIL.



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jbirnsch

01-05-2013 06:58:08
99.139.203.178



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to 560farm, 01-05-2013 01:00:07  
The rear tires on the 9000 were like new Continentals and the duals were 60% Armstrongs. The duals are hub duals not clamp on's.
Here is what has been fixed on the 9000 in the last 10 years we owned it:

reman block and head from Alexander tractors less than 1000 hours ago

new clutch

new PTO drive hub

new hydraulic pump

new turbo less than 20 hours ago

new power steering pump

rebuilt dual power when the dual power clutch pack housing cracked

wired lights with relays

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showcrop

01-05-2013 07:38:56
75.67.231.80



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to jbirnsch, 01-05-2013 06:58:08  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Wow J, you're Killin' me!! There is virtually nothing left to replace on that 9000. And anything else you could pretty much do out in the field with just a pair of pliers, LOL. What a cream puff. You should go buy it back and convert it to fenders. Well, let's hope it goes to a good home where someone will appreciate it as much as you have.

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jbirnsch

01-05-2013 14:01:57
99.139.203.178



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to showcrop, 01-05-2013 07:38:56  
I wanted to keep it but dad said it had to go. He is almost 70 and didn't want to drive a rumble wagon anymore.



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showcrop

01-05-2013 05:11:09
75.67.231.80



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to 560farm, 01-05-2013 01:00:07  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

That cab comes off very easily and there is a pair of fenders on ebay right now. Mine was originally a cab tractor.



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560farm

12-29-2012 20:05:09
98.159.8.21



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to jbirnsch, 12-27-2012 18:15:42  
I would pass on it. All have gave good advise. That tractor is honestly priced $20K to high for what it is and the amount of hours. I would not have put $30k tranny into a 9500 hr machine with an untouched motor. As fordfarmer said I have heard a few not so good things about the dealer and I am an hour south of Chicago. I just watched a nice 2wd 8870 with 41xx actual hrs, duals,& weights sell for $46k yesterday.

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jbirnsch

01-05-2013 00:14:59
99.139.203.178



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to 560farm, 12-29-2012 20:05:09  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Have you looked at the price of used tractors lately? They are all priced too high. High corn price = high equipment costs. Everybody is cashing in.



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jbirnsch

12-28-2012 16:05:13
50.116.153.97



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to jbirnsch, 12-27-2012 18:15:42  
I talked to the original owner today. He was very upfront on all the questions I asked. Oil changed every 300 hours. The front axle input shaft and bearings were replaced a while back. It was mainly his bailing tractor the last few years. He upgraded to a T8.300 and traded this one in as it was his oldest tracctor.

On the transmission it was a shaft inside that went and they opted for a reman from CNH. The brakes were done at that time. A few hundred hours later it had to go in again for the reman transmission he stated it needed shimming. Seems strange that a reman would have problems. He put a few hundred hours on after this second fix. This was donr at a CNH dealership in Eden WI.

The main cab wiring harness was replaced last summer also.

I am having the front axle plugs pulled on Monday at the dealership and the hydraulic flow test done. He never had any issues with the hydraulics.

Barring any major probmems found on Monday I think I will take a gamble. Either pay Uncle Sam or get something tangable.

If an engine problem arises I can put in a reman here on the farm for around 8k.

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RodInNS

12-29-2012 07:02:32
216.118.158.123



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to jbirnsch, 12-28-2012 16:05:13  
I wish you luck... Only you can judge how legit the seller's story is.

Rod



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showcrop

12-28-2012 08:17:50
75.67.231.80



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to jbirnsch, 12-27-2012 18:15:42  
j, I would be very leery of it, probably just because of the problem I had with my 8240 a year ago last summer. The hyd. pump went out at about 5,000 hours and they told me that there were a lot of little scratches and wear all through it, and a lot of little black particles, and they kind of obliquely blamed it on the brakes. The total bill was $9300.00. That was followed 30 hours later by the transmission going out.

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jbirnsch

12-27-2012 20:53:11
50.116.153.97



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to jbirnsch, 12-27-2012 18:15:42  
Here is a link to the ad. I did not see any oil seeping anywhere on the front axle but that doesn't mean there are not problems inside. The steering is tight in the ball joints.

http://www.swiderskipower.com/search.php?cond=used&type=ag&Id=50240

We are heading back there tomorrow and I will see if we can talk to the previous owner.



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Fordfarmer

12-28-2012 07:04:53
184.158.20.197



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to jbirnsch, 12-27-2012 20:53:11  
I don't have any experience with any 70 series, so I cna't help any there... but just the name of the dealership would give me pause. They don't have the best reputation. I know of more than one person who bought a used tractor from them and proceeded to put $$$$ into it. Could be that they honestly didn't know of any problems when they sold the tractors, but who knows. It's also possible that you're dealing with a different branch of this dealer, and they have a better crew there than the one nearest me. So far, I've only bought parts there.

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jbirnsch

12-27-2012 19:25:02
50.116.153.97



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to jbirnsch, 12-27-2012 18:15:42  
So now I'm worried :(

What are good numbers for flow and pressure on the remotes? I have a pressure gauge for testing remotes. How does one get the hydraulics hot on a dealer lot. Our farm is 100 miles away from the dealer.

What about the 3 point?

Are the mag plugs seperate from the drain plugs? On the other fords we have they are integrated. Do I demand them to be drained and checked? I don't want to be a PIA but I don't want to be taken either.

Should I get ahold of the previous owner as the dealer has his number.

I was wondering about the brakes taking out the power shift. Dealer stated the brake disks were warped and the reason they were replaced. Warped means it got hot to me. Can ECU data be pulled and reviewed?

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Bern

12-27-2012 22:06:15
66.218.203.146



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to jbirnsch, 12-27-2012 19:25:02  
You can't test flow using a pressure gauge only, but I'm sure you know that.

Best way to get the oil hot is to bring along a jumper hose and loop it into two couplers of the same valve. Flow oil through this hose. Then deadhead another remote. This should force the pump to pump full flow and full pressure. This assumes the tractor is not MegaFlow. If it is MegaFlow, do this test using remotes # 1 and 2, or 3 and 4. Do this until the filter gets hot to the touch. That should be good enough.

I believe that standby pressure on those rigs was around 2750. Without a flowmeter though, you have no good way to test pump performance.

Not sure on the drain plugs. If it were me, I'd drain the oil and pull and check the suction screen.

It's been years since I've looked at codes on those things. I'm not sure whether overheat codes are permanently stored or if they're lost on a battery disconnect. Wouldn't hurt to have the dealer plug in and take a look if he has the tool. Absent the tool, a lot of info can be gleaned from the dash cluster, if you have a manual nearby to interpret the numbers.

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RodInNS

12-27-2012 20:12:57
216.118.158.123



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to jbirnsch, 12-27-2012 19:25:02  
If the brakes got hot and warped... they crapped their linings into the oil. Then you have a plain pure nightmare to clean all of the crap from the system, particularly the hydraulics. If it was operated that way for any period of time (and it probably was)... I doubt the hydraulics will ever be the same.
I'm trying to remember the specs on them. IIRC, a standard single pump system should make 34GPM @ 2750 psi and that might take a couple of remotes to flow that much. Mega's should make 55 gpm at 2750 psi.... and I mean maintain that pressure at full flow.... not just deadhead a guage to 2750 or make rated flow at no pressure.

I would expect the mag plugs to be either drain or drain/level plugs on the planetaries.

At this point in time I'd demand to talk to the previous owner AND drain the oil... because the previous owner probably didn't disclose whatever ails it so dealer may legitimately not know....

Rod

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Bern

12-27-2012 18:48:56
66.218.203.146



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to jbirnsch, 12-27-2012 18:15:42  
What year is it? Early ones ran hot and were known for cracking pistons. If this one has never had the engine gone into, I'd wager it's a later one that is putting out closer to rated HP. If it's an early one with Ford decals, look for excessive blowby.

Yes, front duals would worry me. That axle (Dana 70) was never intended for duals, so I would take a look at the final drives VERY close, along with the front diff. Ditto pretty much everything else Rod said.

Having said all that, they were one bad a$$ machine for their time.

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jbirnsch

12-27-2012 19:27:15
50.116.153.97



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to Bern, 12-27-2012 18:48:56  
Bern,

It is a 1995 model. Serial number: D407551

Jason



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Bern

12-27-2012 21:56:44
66.218.203.146



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to jbirnsch, 12-27-2012 19:27:15  
By the decals, it's a 96 or newer. The NH decals were installed beginning in January of 1996.

If it really is a 96, then it has the "tamed down" engine, which is likely why it's never been gone in to (which is a good thing). The old ones were too darn hot!



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showcrop

12-27-2012 18:40:15
75.67.231.80



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to jbirnsch, 12-27-2012 18:15:42  
No receipt for the transmission job?



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RodInNS

12-27-2012 18:36:24
216.118.158.123



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 Re: High houred 8970 in reply to jbirnsch, 12-27-2012 18:15:42  
I wouldn't dump the 9000 until you find out what's shelled out in this one...
It doesn't make sense to me that someone dumped 30K in the transmission then sell the tractor off a year later. That's 30K they'll never see back. I'd wager that the hammer is about to fall on something else and it's more than the radio.

They were good tractors.... but realistically... at 9500 hours it's had a transmission and brakes. It's probably got hydraulic issues that result from the brake and transmission failures... and the transmission itself may be a result of the brake failure.
It's got front duals.... probably had the snot pulled out of it. Engines were '10000' hour expected life... so it's near. It might go 15000. Might also crack a piston tomorrow.
If it was me I'd pull every drain and mag plug in the tractor and look for metal. I'd get the hydraulics good and hot and see how their performance is... preferably have someone analyse them with pressure/flow meters.
Mabey I'm a cynic... but I can almost guarnantee you there is ~something~ about this tractor that's going to cause you major heartache.
I just know I would not drop 30K on the transmission and sell it a year later. I'd scrap the damn thing on the spot or repair it and hold...

Rod

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