641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc

RTR

Well-known Member
Trying to get it to start. Just put in new points and condenser. Don't know the gap. Looks visually the same as before. It fires but will not run. I put wires at 1-2-4-3 with 1 on cap towards rear of tractor. Going counterclockwise
 
Gap for points is .25. Firing order is 1-2-4-3 CLOCKWISE starting with #1 at rear of distributor. You need to switch #2 & #3 wires according to how you presently have them connected.
 
Thank you so much! I have been searching the forums with my phone all evening in the shop and COULDN"T FIND A THING regarding the firing order and point gap. I guess I didn't know how to use the search cause I'm sure it is on here. I did see ONE post and it said the firing order was CCW with #1 at the front of tractor. hah.


(quoted from post at 05:16:12 11/15/12) Gap for points is .25. Firing order is 1-2-4-3 CLOCKWISE starting with #1 at rear of distributor. You need to switch #2 & #3 wires according to how you presently have them connected.
 
Confirmed - Gap is .025", Firing order 1243 Clockwise, Number one to the rear on the dizzy.

FiringOrder.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 20:35:24 11/14/12) Thank you so much! I have been searching the forums with my phone all evening in the shop and COULDN"T FIND A THING regarding the firing order and point gap. I guess I didn't know how to use the search cause I'm sure it is on here. I did see ONE post and it said the firing order was CCW with #1 at the front of tractor. hah.


(quoted from post at 05:16:12 11/15/12) Gap for points is .25. Firing order is 1-2-4-3 CLOCKWISE starting with #1 at rear of distributor. You need to switch #2 & #3 wires according to how you presently have them connected.
/quote]Well, RTR, if it don't run as you have been told, don't give up..........#1 CAN be any one of the 4 holes in cap.....it just depends on how someone installed the distributor. Rear, front, toward engine, away from engine is all arbitrary. Factory did it one way, but any of the 4 are equally fine.......as said, just depends on how distributor was installed. If one doesn't work for you, just rotate every wire one slot & try again and after 4 tries you will have covered all possibilities.
 
I am thinking here, but wouldn't 1243 in one direction be 1342 in the other. Do the first two pistons come up together?
 

A friend who is pretty sharp with all things mechanical told me once that ALL four cylinder motors are 1243.
 
(quoted from post at 22:03:21 11/14/12) I am thinking here, but wouldn't 1243 in one direction be 1342 in the other. Do the first two pistons come up together?
O! :roll:
 
Farmalls are 1342, the two outer cylinders come up at the same time and the two inner ones do. I guess you could grind the cam for either firing order.
 
The N-series front mount distributor is CCW but the
Hundred series round distributor is CW. I made the
same mistake once on my 850. It only takes once!
 
I got the firing order right and still won't start. Wonder if the PO changed something?? Looks like I need to go ahead and time it. Anybody in here have a good guidance on timing this tractor. And to think..... I thought I was gonna get by without a manual

(quoted from post at 09:18:37 11/15/12) The N-series front mount distributor is CCW but the
Hundred series round distributor is CW. I made the
same mistake once on my 850. It only takes once!
 
Here is the way I've got it wired. I will check the points gap tomorrow with a gap gauge. I bought a new one today. I fires right off but backfires and spits and sputters and won't stay running.....or begin to. I never touched the distributor so the timing shouldn't be off. All I did was remove the dist. cap and rotor button and tape over the "dust cap" while painting. Points, plugs, rotor button, condenser, coil, and plug wires are all NEW.

The tractor had sat outside and i worked on it for a little over 1 year before finishing it. It has been a "backburner" project. Is it possible that the valves could have gotten stuck while sitting?? It ran PERFECT when I drove it to where it was in July 2011.

12232.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 17:12:53 11/16/12) Here is the way I've got it wired. I will check the points gap tomorrow with a gap gauge. I bought a new one today. I fires right off but backfires and spits and sputters and won't stay running.....or begin to. I never touched the distributor so the timing shouldn't be off. All I did was remove the dist. cap and rotor button and tape over the "dust cap" while painting. Points, plugs, rotor button, condenser, coil, and plug wires are all NEW.

The tractor had sat outside and i worked on it for a little over 1 year before finishing it. It has been a "backburner" project. Is it possible that the valves could have gotten stuck while sitting?? It ran PERFECT when I drove it to where it was in July 2011.

12232.jpg

You don't mention the little spring clip that holds the rotor tight. Didja put one of those in there too?
 

Spring clip? Was the new one supposed to come with one? The rotor button is really tight once put on the center of the distributer. It's actually kinda hard to tell if it is down on it in the correct place it is such a tight fit.

This is my first Ford to fix up, so I really don't know what the spring clip is. I'm used to Farmalls. ha.
 
OK, now that you have the order down & have tried your RED position, try each of the other 3 positions shown. Same order, but different timing.
Distr_NAA_firing_order.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 18:50:38 11/16/12)
Spring clip? Was the new one supposed to come with one? The rotor button is really tight once put on the center of the distributer. It's actually kinda hard to tell if it is down on it in the correct place it is such a tight fit.

This is my first Ford to fix up, so I really don't know what the spring clip is. I'm used to Farmalls. ha.

There is supposed to be a little spring clip on top of the shaft, under the rotor. It could have stayed on when you pulled the rotor off but my experience is that it almost always pops off.
 
Where can I get one if its missing? Do you have a picture of the clip? Thanks


(quoted from post at 19:19:29 11/17/12)
(quoted from post at 18:50:38 11/16/12)
Spring clip? Was the new one supposed to come with one? The rotor button is really tight once put on the center of the distributer. It's actually kinda hard to tell if it is down on it in the correct place it is such a tight fit.

This is my first Ford to fix up, so I really don't know what the spring clip is. I'm used to Farmalls. ha.

There is supposed to be a little spring clip on top of the shaft, under the rotor. It could have stayed on when you pulled the rotor off but my experience is that it almost always pops off.
 
CNH or any of the after market suppliers, YT, etc. I have run them for years without the clip (even a little tape around top of shaft will tighten it up & will run lose, too, but to make it "right" get one. This is N distr, but clip is same (G). Swap wires, 3 times.
distr_frt_mt_internals.jpg
 
CNH or any of the after market suppliers, YT, etc. I have run them for years without the clip (even a little tape around top of shaft will tighten it up & will run lose, too, but to make it "right" get one. This is N distr, but clip is same (G). Swap wires, 3 times.
distr_frt_mt_internals.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 22:57:25 11/16/12) OK, now that you have the order down & have tried your RED position, [color=red:52f37c20ff]try each of the other 3 positions shown[/color:52f37c20ff]. Same order, but different timing.


[size=24:52f37c20ff]x2[/size:52f37c20ff]
 
got it running. I changed the plug wires out to some others that I had and put the Order back to the factory settings per the cap and now she cranks and runs great. I was originally using a universal set of plug wires from TSC that are copper core. They said they were but dont look like it to me. I used a set of napa wires that I was told are not for tractors cause they aren't copper core but they work good.
 
Do you have your oil pressure gauge disconnected?
I don't see it registering any oil pressure.
 
I actually noticed the myself. I looked and the gauge I hooked up. After I shut it down I unhooked the line going into the gauge and started it back up. I have no oil coming through the tube. What could be the problem. ???


 
Did you prime the oil pump?
I would not run it with no oil pressure.
You might want to start a new topic on that.
 
(quoted from post at 17:04:29 11/17/12) I actually noticed the myself. I looked and the gauge I hooked up. After I shut it down I unhooked the line going into the gauge and started it back up. I have no oil coming through the tube. What could be the problem. ???
would look for blockage in small line to gauge, since I think that if oil pump were doing nothing, it wouldn't sound like it does in your video after running for 4 minutes without oil.
 

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