Author	[Modern View]
mb58 10-30-2012 06:00:52 192.234.241.107 Report to Moderator	Got my overhaul kit in for the hydraulic pump on my 700. Is there any chance that the internal parts of the pump are worn out and that the kit will not fix it? The three point hitch will not lift. That"s why I am overhauling it. [Reply]   [No Email]
Shaun Wallace 10-30-2012 20:04:12 184.79.84.3 Report to Moderator	Re: Hydraulic pump on 700 in reply to mb58, 10-30-2012 06:00:52   The safety valve under assery plate is for shock load on lift cyl. The system relief valve is in bottom of hyd hsg. It is above plate with 5 bolts and a very tough gasket and oring on it. Can be pulled with bolt. Hyd oil must be drained. [Reply]  [No Email]
ZANE 10-30-2012 19:12:42 98.83.62.205 Report to Moderator	Re: Hydraulic pump on 700 in reply to mb58, 10-30-2012 06:00:52   Do the trouble shooting with a heavy piece of equipment attached to the three point hitch. First thing to do is remove the fill cap on the lift housing and then while trying to lift an implement look into the fill hole and you can see the open end of the ram cylinder that does the raising of the lift. If there is a steady stream of oil running out the back of the cylinder the ring/s are shot and need to be replaced. If it is not leaking there it is possible that the pressure relief valve is leaking. It is easy to access on the Hundred series model tractor. Remove the plate on the right front of the lift housing. This is the remote adapter plate or if it has a remote valve there remove it. The relief valve is going to be the little spark plug looking thingy in one of the holes you can see when the plate is removed. Do not start the tractor with this plate off. Replace the valve. It is not serviceable. I have at times though taken the cap off and found foreign matter under the ball letting it not be able to seat. Do not adjust. If you do take it apart put the cap back only to the solder stop that held it before you took it off. Damage to the pump etc can result if it is altered. HUNDRED SERIES HYDRAULIC TROUBLE SHOOTING INCLUDING NAA SERIES. First you must determine if the pump is pumping correctly. Most of these round later pumps have two plugs in the pump The one closest to the front of the tractor and in the head of the pump is the one you use to bleed the air out of the pump after air has entered the pump. Air can enter the pump from a bad pump shaft seal and or bearings and it can also enter the pump through a leaky intake O ring or a small hole in the intake pipe. If the hole is above the oil level it will not leak when standing. Usually if it is below the level of the oil the oil will leak out slowly and make a puddle under the tractor according to how big the leak is. If the pressure side leaks it will not make air go into the pump but will cause a loss of oil. If it does have the two plugs the one toward the rear of the pump is for priming only. Pour in some oil if needed and put this plug back in. Take the front plug out and start the tractor and run until the oil that is escaping the bleed hole is free of air bubbles. Then shut down and replace the plug and the pump should be operable. There is the chance that the gear that is the pump driven gear has stripped out it's spline in the center of the gear where it fits onto the pump shaft. This does happen but not often. I suspect that cold oil and a leaky pump shaft seal may be the problem. It is hard to fix the pump shaft seal if it is in fact leaking. A special tool is needed to pull the roller bearing race cup and the old seal if you save the old race. You can get that race out by welding a bead all the way around the face of the race and let it cool and then it will come out easy as it is shrunk. Then you can drive out the old seal and the old needle bearing. Dirty job but it can be done/ If it is determined that the pump is operating right and supplying enough volume of oil under pressure to the hydraulic system then you may have a sticking unloading valve in the lift ram cylinder housing. If the lift is jumping/bumping/hiccupping it is caused by the lift trying to hold the height constant with a leak internally of the hydraulic system. The leak must be fixed before these symptoms will go away. Common leaking places are the ram cylinder O ring/s, the pressure relief valve, the O ring on the unloading valve or a blown gasket under the ram cylinder to housing flange surfaces. On the 53 and up Ford tractors there is a gadget named the unloading valve. It is hydraulically shifted by the movement of the control valve. The control valve does not actually move oil to the ram cylinder. The oil is directed to the ram cylinder by the position of the unloading valve. The Hundred series has the same valve in a slightly different form but performs the same function. If and when the unloading valve stops moving then the lift won't lift until the problem that is causing this condition is fixed. A faulty back pressure valve can cause the unloading valve to stick. The unloading valve can stick on it's own. The unloading valve has an O ring that can become worn until it will not allow the valve to move. The pump could have lost it's prime too. The piston pump must be bled by opening the front head plug in the pump and running the engine slowly until all air bubbles are gone from the escaping oil. Stop the engine, replace the plug and start the engine again to see if that fixes the problem. It can! I would first try bleeding the pump by removing the front pipe plug with the allen head hole in it. Start the tractor and let it idle as slow as possible and when all the bubbles are gone stop the tractor and put the plug back in. You will loose about a half cup usually so put something under the pump to catch the oil. If it won't work then you must go into the lift and take out the unloading valve and clean it up and replace the O ring with the Ford O ring made specifically for the unloading valve. The old part # was NCA 836B. Don't use a substitute or you will be sorry. The unloading valve is covered by a plate at the front of the control valve housing just above the control valve. Their is a plug over the valve that must be pulled by inserting a bolt with fine threads into the plug and prying it out with two bars. The valve can then be pushed out with a punch of the appropriate size. Don't strike it with a hammer. The O ring will be on the unloading valve that needs to be replaced. If you will look around on the other reference pages of the N board etc you can probably find some good views of the lift to give you some idea of what you will be looking at. When taking the lift control housing off the tractor remove only the bolts that are around the ;outside edge of the housing and do not remove any of the bolt that are inside this circle of bolts. If you encounter a bolt that has fine threads on it put it back where you took it out. The fine bolts hold the cylinder to the cover housing. LIFT LEAKS DOWN Install an implement on the lift and raise it. If the lift leaks down or has a bad case of the hiccoughs it has some sort of hydraulic leak internally. The most common place will be the ram cylinder ring/s. To check the ram cylinder for leaks you can remove the hydraulic fill plug and with a good light observe the open of the ram cylinder as seen through the fill hole. The best light to use is the sun light directed into the hole with a mirror. A good bright flash light will work. If you see oil coming out the back open end of the ram cylinder the rings need to be replaced. Hiccoughs can also be caused by a leaking O ring on the unloading valve itself. Or if there is a lot of wear in the control valve it can cause it but is much less likely than the ram cylinder rings or the unloading valve or the pressure relief valve. Also the pilot pressure relief valve can be leaking. It can be accessed by removing the remote hydraulic valve or the valve adapter plate from the top of the hydraulic lift cover that is directly under the seat and on the right side in front of the quadrant mounting point. The relief valve is not serviceable and should be replaced if suspected to be leaking or bypassing. ON THE NAA SERIES TRACTORS THE RAM CYLINDER GASKET COMMONLY FAILS/BLOWS OUT AND WHEN IT HAPPENS THE LIFT WILL BARELY RAISE THE EMPTY LIFT ARMS. THE RELIEF VALVE ON THE NAA IS LOCATED ON THE RAM CYLINDER HOUSING POINTING BACKWARDS AND THE LIFT COVER HAS TO BE REMOVED TO ACCESS IT TO REPLACE. REMOVE THE RIGHT SIDE LIFT INSPECTION PLATE AND OBSERVE IF THERE IS A LARGE VOLUME OF OIL SPRAYING/LEAKING FROM UP ABOVE IN THE AREA OF THE RAM CYLINDER TOP. Good luck. Zane [Reply]  [No Email]
Billy NY 10-30-2012 21:56:14 24.29.79.122 Report to Moderator	Re: Hydraulic pump on 700 in reply to ZANE, 10-30-2012 19:12:42   Zane, thank you for posting that, my 850 had a similar issue, but I had just changed the fluids in all the compartments, not sure what was going on, but I got it to work, only thing it does now is settle when the tractor is shut off, would have to look real close to see if its pulsing, say at a low idle, what you posted is a big help, so is the other participants on this common problem with these, as I have read here for 12 years or so. [Reply]  [No Email]
soundguy 10-30-2012 14:54:33 107.41.211.89 Report to Moderator	Re: Hydraulic pump on 700 in reply to mb58, 10-30-2012 06:00:52   did you do any diagnostice to see if it was the pump or something under the topcover? a stuck unloader valve will disable the lift.. and still have a good pump... [Reply]  [No Email]
Kurt-NEPA 10-30-2012 11:28:31 70.44.245.96 Report to Moderator	Re: Hydraulic pump on 700 in reply to mb58, 10-30-2012 06:00:52   If I had to do it again, I would try one of TOH's modern adapted pumps. He came up with a way to mount it onto the pump housing and replace that piston pump. [Reply]  [No Email]
Kurt-NEPA 10-30-2012 10:29:40 70.44.245.96 Report to Moderator	Re: Hydraulic pump on 700 in reply to mb58, 10-30-2012 06:00:52   You probably have a piston pump, The overhaul kit does not include, the wobble shaft, main bearing cup and cone, and the needle bearing. It depends on what's wrong with your pump. If its bad check balls, springs, or seats, then the kit will be all you need. If your pump is loosing its prime, then its likely the wobble shaft and seal. Its a common cause of failure on these piston pumps. As time goes by, the seal wears a groove in the wobble shaft and necessitates replacement of both. A new wobble shaft requires a new main bearing, and you usually damage the needle bearing getting the seal and main bearing cup out. So I would figure on replacing all of them. [Reply]  [No Email]
old 10-30-2012 09:15:45 209.86.226.57 Report to Moderator	Re: Hydraulic pump on 700 in reply to mb58, 10-30-2012 06:00:52   As with any thing that moves like pistons etc one never know what they will find till you open it up. Of course no lift can be caused by more then just a weak pump. Did you do the normal trouble shooting first?? Like #1 checking pump pressure?? Checking that the lift cylinder does not leak super bad etc etc [Reply]  [No Email]
George Marsh 10-30-2012 08:44:38 205.188.116.9 Report to Moderator	Re: Hydraulic pump on 700 in reply to mb58, 10-30-2012 06:00:52   Don't remember who, but someone has made an adaptor kit to convert a Jubilee to a modern after market pump. He posts here and on Ford 9N,2N & 8N. Not sure if he makes a kit for the 700. If my Jubilee pump goes south, I'm going to get his kit. George [Reply]  [No Email]
old 10-30-2012 09:13:37 209.86.226.57 Report to Moderator	Re: Hydraulic pump on 700 in reply to George Marsh, 10-30-2012 08:44:38   Geo a 700 most likely has the piston type pump not to old vane pump that was used on the Jubilee and the NAA. [Reply]  [No Email]
George Marsh 10-30-2012 09:23:45 205.188.116.9 Report to Moderator	Re: Hydraulic pump on 700 in reply to old, 10-30-2012 09:13:37   I know, the person on YT has made an adaptor kit to up grade to a modern after market hydraulic pump, not a ford piston or vane pump. [Reply]  [No Email]
old 10-30-2012 10:38:37 209.86.226.32 Report to Moderator	Re: Hydraulic pump on 700 in reply to George Marsh, 10-30-2012 09:23:45   Shoot if your going to get to that point is it easier to just use a front mount crank drive hyd pump like used on loaders and be do with it [Reply]  [No Email]
soundguy 10-30-2012 14:50:45 107.41.211.89 Report to Moderator	Re: Hydraulic pump on 700 in reply to old, 10-30-2012 10:38:37   that's be an interesting setup on a rowcrop.... [Reply]  [No Email]
old 10-30-2012 18:28:55 209.86.226.56 Report to Moderator	Re: Hydraulic pump on 700 in reply to soundguy, 10-30-2012 14:50:45   Plus if set up right you have the option for pretty much as many remotes as you have control body levers [Reply]  [No Email]
soundguy 10-31-2012 05:22:40 173.104.183.68 Report to Moderator	Re: Hydraulic pump on 700 in reply to old, 10-30-2012 18:28:55   except.. you couldn't use a standard front pump on a rowcrop. bolster is in the way... [Reply]  [No Email]
old 10-31-2012 08:41:03 209.86.226.56 Report to Moderator	Re: Hydraulic pump on 700 in reply to soundguy, 10-31-2012 05:22:40   Isn't there an option or some such thing so as to be able to install a loader with a crank shaft driven pump on them?? And how about the hand crank handle hole or do they not have that as an option for starting as the say 801 series have [Reply]  [No Email]
soundguy 10-31-2012 09:13:35 173.104.183.68 Report to Moderator	Re: Hydraulic pump on 700 in reply to old, 10-31-2012 08:41:03   here's the front bolster on my 740 :) difficult to hand crank or front pump them. That's why i said it would be interesting to see a stinger pump on a rowcrop. :) [Reply]  [No Email]
old 10-31-2012 09:18:50 209.86.226.56 Report to Moderator	Re: Hydraulic pump on 700 in reply to soundguy, 10-31-2012 09:13:35   In all the years I have messed with tractors I have had only 1 Ford Rowcrop so was not sure and that one I had less then a month. Had a 981 got it in got it running and sold it as fast as I could I hate those SOS tractors [Reply]  [No Email]
George Marsh 10-30-2012 12:03:18 50.104.246.0 Report to Moderator	Re: Hydraulic pump on 700 in reply to old, 10-30-2012 10:38:37   Old, Kurt-NEPA knew who I was talking about. TOH made the adapter Kit. I wouldn't want a pump in front of the tractor. My luck, I would run in to something and break it. Also would need to adapt hyd lines too. I like what TOH is doing and will use his kit when my pump goes bad. George [Reply]  [No Email]
old 10-30-2012 12:22:54 209.86.226.19 Report to Moderator	Re: Hydraulic pump on 700 in reply to George Marsh, 10-30-2012 12:03:18   Well again if I have a front pump you have a mount and a brush guard as par of the mount. Ya just a pump sitting out in front is not good since it would be bait for every stick etc you could hit [Reply]  [No Email]