Author	[Modern View]
William Fissell 09-08-2012 13:07:33 76.18.178.56 Report to Moderator	Hi, wanted to get rid of the suicide starter on my 640, so I bought a new starter swith and a new solenoid. The solenoid has 4 terminals, two seem obvious to me. The other two I don't get. There's an I and a S. I figgered 12V to the I and the S to the starter switch. Well, I was not quite right- 12V to I engages the solenoid. I can;t figure out what S does. Can someone enlighten me? How should I connect it so I can use the grounding starter switch on the tranny cover? thanks Bill [Reply]   [No Email]
JMOR 09-11-2012 21:30:41 72.181.173.171 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to JBMac, 09-08-2012 13:07:33   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeWell, there you go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You grab a "sound bite" off of the internet and think it is a "universal" truth!?? whereas, I am speaking from first hand absolute experience! TWO very different worlds! You see, you don't even know the circuit of which you so confidently speak. That statement, which you reference, about the two terminals being interchangeable is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE for all Ford solenoids!!!!!! YOU need to KNOW about which you speak! Sorry, my friend. but you just shouldn't be out here giving advice based on crap you find on the internet. I personally wish I could trust the internet, but any body can put anything out there & it just does not mean it is fact. I wish it were. Sorry. [Reply]  [No Email]
mgriff543 09-11-2012 21:19:43 69.95.74.132 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to William Fissell, 09-08-2012 13:07:33   It's been a few years but every automotive type solenoid I ever took apart had a small brass finger inside the solenoid that picked up battery voltage from the contact disc when the solenoid is engaged. Hooking battery to this particular type of "I" terminal would not engage the solenoid. OP has to have an insulated circuit solenoid if battery to "I" activates the solenoid. JMOR is correct. HTH Mike [Reply]  [No Email]
Larry NCKS 09-11-2012 21:10:16 75.88.101.196 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to DaveH IA, 09-08-2012 13:07:33   OK Mr. Nice Guy! Here's a quote from an expert on wiring a Ford starter solenoid! Snap the two wire connectors onto each of the small connection posts on the front of the solenoid. These two wires are interchangeable. Read more: How to Wire a Ford Starter Solenoid | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_7812061_wire-ford-starter-solenoid.html#ixzz26E0UEAye [Reply]  [No Email]
JMOR 09-11-2012 21:03:00 72.181.173.171 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to Larry NCKS, 09-08-2012 13:07:33   Larry NCKS said: (quoted from post at 23:54:14 09/11/12) JMOR said: (quoted from post at 22:19:14 09/11/12) Show me the circuit & I'll show that you are wrong, my friend. I don't play games........just the facts. You come to where I am, bring me an automotive type 12V solenoid, and we'll see who shows whom they're wrong! Your facts are mixed up here! Pretty weak, Larry. Can't defend your position with facts? Here, I am a nice fellow, I will help you out, so that you can see the error of your ways & not stick you neck out so as to have it chopped off again. This is a diagram (right side) of the "wrong" solenoid that you propose that this man has & I defy you to present a case, any case, that applying 12v to the "I" terminal will activate this solenoid. Ain't gonna happen! Now, anticipating a "dodge", if that isn't the solenoid that "you" have in mind, then post your diagram! Well, a few minutes later, I notice that you, "Larry NCKS", are gone from browsing the forum. That usually means defeat...silence. It isn't my objective to beat someone like you up, but rather, to keep FACTS straight, so as to help those in need of help & not to further complicate/confuse them. I wouldn't even pursue those who beat a dead horse, if it were not for their persistence of the WRONG position. It needs to stop somewhere, for the benefit o those truly in need of help. Just the FACTS, PLEASE!!!!!!!! This post was edited by JMOR at 21:17:36 09/11/12. [Reply]  [No Email]
Larry NCKS 09-11-2012 20:54:14 75.88.101.196 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to TONY JACOBS, 09-08-2012 13:07:33   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see You come to where I am, bring me an automotive type 12V solenoid, and we'll see who shows whom they're wrong! Your facts are mixed up here! [Reply]  [No Email]
JMOR 09-11-2012 20:20:21 72.181.173.171 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to Tom Bond, 09-08-2012 13:07:33   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeDead on, Royce! [Reply]  [No Email]
JMOR 09-11-2012 20:19:14 72.181.173.171 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to Tom Bond, 09-08-2012 13:07:33   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeShow me the circuit & I'll show that you are wrong, my friend. I don't play games........just the facts. [Reply]  [No Email]
Royse 09-11-2012 18:09:28 69.36.49.151 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to Royse, 09-08-2012 13:07:33   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see I think I follow your thinking JMOR. If he has the correct one then applying 12 volts to the I terminal should not engage it unless S is grounded. That would be normal operation. 12 volt from key-on to I, no crank until you push the starter button and ground S. So if he disconnects S and 12 volts to I no longer engages, it could be a faulty switch or grounded wire on the correct solenoid. [Reply]  [No Email]
Larry NCKS 09-11-2012 17:57:40 70.197.198.103 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to soundguy, 09-08-2012 13:07:33   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see I submit that all of them will! because the I & S are on the same circuit in these solenoids! [Reply]  [No Email]
JMOR 09-11-2012 17:53:49 72.181.173.171 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to soundguy, 09-08-2012 13:07:33   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see....not so fast on your 99%....probably just leading to more confusion for the man. In his original post, he said, "12V to 'I' engages the solenoid. I can;t figure out what S does". ..... Now just how many of the "wrong type" automotive solenoids, that bypass the ignition ballast resistor through the use of the I terminal, do you suppose will engage the starter when 12v is applied to the I terminal???? I submit, none. [Reply]  [No Email]
Larry NCKS 09-11-2012 17:13:23 75.88.101.196 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to awhtx, 09-08-2012 13:07:33   I'm with the camp that says he has the wrong solenoid. On a 4 terminal unit for a tractor or any application that applies a ground to engage the solenoid, switched power should be applied to the I terminal and the starter switch connected to the S terminal. On a 4 terminal unit for any appication (most 12V automotive) that requires B+ to activate the solenoid, the starter switch is connected to the S terminal and the ignition coil is connected to the I terminal. This bypasses the resistor giving more power for starting as has been stated. This latter type 4 post is more common, therefore I'm 99% sure that unless the OP spec'd the grounding solenoid, he got the wrong one. [Reply]  [No Email]
JMOR 09-10-2012 11:33:13 72.181.173.171 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to RTR, 09-08-2012 13:07:33   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeI'm not convinced that you have wrong solenoid type, just yet. Disconnect wire from "S" and then see if 12v to I still tries to start. [Reply]  [No Email]
Texasmark1 09-10-2012 06:01:56 67.142.175.23 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to William Fissell, 09-08-2012 13:07:33   On the I and S, and being automotive, going to guess the I is for regular running ignition where there is a ballast resistor in series with the ignition coil to limit the point current to 4-5 amps. The S is a ballast resistor bypass position used for starting...probably internally shorted together with the I terminal, but externally provides for a different wire that bypasses the resistor so that you get a real hot spark for starting. I think Ford vehicles used this method. What you want is one with 4 terminals but both are isolated from ground. Hook one to your power source, be it switched (ignition on type switch spst, not a spring loaded or button starting type switch connection) or not...suit yourself, doesn't matter, and the other to the starting safety switch on top of the tranny that hooks that wire to ground when you are in N only and push the switch down. NAPA has diagrams in their parts book on their solenoids and you can look around and find what you want if you can't find something as mentioned herein. Mark [Reply]  [No Email]
TONY JACOBS 09-08-2012 21:08:32 205.188.116.9 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to William Fissell, 09-08-2012 13:07:33   Hello Bill , You need a NAPA ST-542 solenoid it is the correct Ford Tractor Solenoid for a 12 volt system . Thanks Tony [Reply]  [No Email]
soundguy 09-08-2012 17:24:00 173.107.208.238 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to William Fissell, 09-08-2012 13:07:33   as others said.. you got the wrong relay. [Reply]  [No Email]
Royse 09-08-2012 16:57:32 69.36.49.151 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to William Fissell, 09-08-2012 13:07:33   I don't remember when they switched to the 4 wire type, but you do need the one awhtx pointed out that is made for tractors if using a 4 wire. I also don't know of any reason you couldn't use the 3 terminal ground isolated type that was pointed out. Only difference I see is that the 3 wire will engage and roll the engine with the key off and the 4 wire will not. [Reply]  [No Email]
awhtx 09-08-2012 16:38:51 72.26.142.171 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to William Fissell, 09-08-2012 13:07:33   Tell your auto parts person that you need the equivalent of a Ford 311006 starter relay. Then connect one of the 2 small posts to a 12V source that is powered with the key ON and the other small post to the starter push button. [Reply]  [No Email]
John in la 09-08-2012 15:05:05 74.241.109.89 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to William Fissell, 09-08-2012 13:07:33   You have a grounding relay made for a car. You need a ground isolated relay made for a tractor. [Reply]  [No Email]
William Fissell 09-08-2012 17:18:55 76.18.178.56 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to John in la, 09-08-2012 15:05:05   Argh. Tractor supply rules again. 12V solenoid for tractor. [Reply]  [No Email]
old 09-08-2012 14:58:42 209.86.226.18 Report to Moderator	Re: 12V start solenoid sanity check. in reply to William Fissell, 09-08-2012 13:07:33   The 4 post one is 99% of the time the wrong one and the type used on cars/trucks. The S on it I bet if you hook it up to battery power will spin the starter over. The I from what I understand but maybe wrong is a way to get around a ballast resister in the system to give hotter spark on start up. What you need is the true simple 3 wire solenoid that you can buy at TSC or that same type [Reply]  [No Email]