1969 ford 4000 diesel

Hi...I"m looking at a 1969 Ford 4000 diesel to possibly buy...
Please, I have found conflicting data on this tractor. What is the total horsepower? Drawbar horsepower? Was the same diesel engine used in all years 66 through 75? Total weight...bare tractor?
Can the rear remote and the three-point be used simultaneously?
Does it have glowplugs?
Overall, is the 4000 a strong and reliable tractor? The one I am looking at shows around 1600 hours on a working tach... 4-speed with hi and low (8 total) power steering (external type). Price of $5300.00. Yes? No? maybe? What do I look for? or bag it and buy an International diesel with a Perkins diesel?
ANY help will help and be appreciated.

All '65-'75 4000 diesels used the 201 3-cyl. H.P. varied a little for different years, and the Select-O-Speed is typically about 2 h.p. lower than an 8-speed... this may account for your conflicting data. By '69, it should have been 50 PTO h.p. (most common measure). That would be roughly 58-60 h.p. at the flywheel. I don't have my books handy, but I think they were about 42-45 h.p. at the drawbar.
Remotes take priority over 3-point... You can use both at the same time, but the 3point doesn't move while the remote cylinder is moving.
No glowplugs, though it may have a Thermostart manifold heater.
VERY good tractor. Good torque, efficiency, and long lasting, assuming good maintenance. I doubt the 1600 hours is accurate though - that would be less than 40 hours a year. Those tachs are known to quit. I'd bet it's on its second or third tach and/or tach drive. I have a 4600 (generation newer, but essentially the same). Have it torn down for a rebuild right now due to a pinhole in a cylinder wall. I checked the clearance on the old main and rod bearings and one piston ring... the mains were .0015" beyond spec, and the rod bearings and ring end gap were still within spec at 8650 hours.
$5300? That's reasonable if it starts and runs well and has decent rubber - around here any way... other areas will have different prices. I wouldn't even consider an IH or a Perkins powered tractor if I could get a 4000 for similar money.

be sure it is not an SU model, as that would share the light front end of a 3000.. etc.

otherwise an ag model 4000 has a good strong front end and wet brakes and rear planetaries..

soundguy

(quoted from post at 06:06:32 12/23/11) be sure it is not an SU model, as that would share the light front end of a 3000.. etc.

otherwise an ag model 4000 has a good strong front end and wet brakes and rear planetaries..

soundguy

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Yep, especially if you're planning to use a loader, look for the stronger 4000 front axle.

If you have no intention of using a loader, value a tight turning radius, but like the extra horsepower and wet brakes of the 4000, then the 4000su isn't a bad choice either.. don't let the front end scare you. I'd rather have the 4000su, for example, than the 3000. Same front end, less power and dry brakes on the 3000.

Here's how to tell the different between the SU (wimpy) front end and the normal 4000 ag front end:

Hefty:



Wimpy:

Tractor SELLING prices are way down right now. I doubt that 1600 hours is original. Shop around.

looks like a 4000 su is a 3000 with a different coat?? does it use the same sos as the 4000 ag?

(quoted from post at 18:54:37 12/23/11) looks like a 4000 su is a 3000 with a different coat?? does it use the same sos as the 4000 ag?

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Dunno much about the SOS tractors. I think of the 4000su as the back end of a 4000 (including the bigger 201 engine) and the front end of the 3000.

Taking a quick scan of the parts manual, I don't see much in the way of differences between 2000/3000/4000 for the SOS tranny. I'm not saying they are identical.. but in several pages of parts for the tranny I don't see anything called out as specific to the 4000 or vice-versa. I do see the tranny being different based on which PTO you have, and the 8-speed 4000su can be had with the 4000's independent PTO so I'm gonna guess that in general the 4000su could be had with any of the 4000 ag transmission options.

I think the Oaktree site has some 3000 and 4000 data sheets online if you want to dig deeper. Let me know if you can't find 'em.

Greg

think of a 4000 su as the front half of a 3000 and the rear half of a 4000

soundguy

Hey Greg, what's with the Firestone on the right rear and brand x on the left on both tractors? Wa's up wi' dat ennyways! LOL

(quoted from post at 01:47:04 12/24/11) Hey Greg, what's with the Firestone on the right rear and brand x on the left on both tractors? Wa's up wi' dat ennyways! LOL

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Good question.. I have no idea! Hope it's OK to post pictures of random tractors off the internet, because that's what I did here.

Soundguy mentioned to be wary of the 4000su, and he's right, but I figured a picture or two would be the easiest way for Michael to quickly get up to speed on the differences. I did a quick google image search and pulled up the first two axle shots I could find.

I've got Titans on my '70 4000su, matched set And a slightly checked but full tread matched set of Goodyears (perhaps the originals?) on the '66 3400 I just picked up. Mismatched rims, one seems to have been replaced already, the other is pretty far gone with the calcium plague.

Greg

(quoted from post at 01:47:04 12/24/11) Hey Greg, what's with the Firestone on the right rear and brand x on the left on both tractors? Wa's up wi' dat ennyways! LOL

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Wow I just realized (even though you said it the first time..) that BOTH of those tractors have mismatched rears. Somebody should make a poll.. what are the odds?

Thank you all for the information... I will check about the front axle. I do wish someone made an hour meter that lasted the life of a tractor...It would certainly give an hour meter a reason to exist!! I like the looks and feel of the Ford 4000. This one runs strong...little to no smoke...clutch was replaced... back tires slightly weather checked, but around 90% tread. Front tires around 40%. 4-speed Hi/Lo works fine. Has differential lock... Strong brakes. Around here in central, pa. it is hard to find a 4000 diesel for sale. And they hold their value. At $5300.00 this one is priced reasonably by comparison. It has live PTO also and power steering. Tin has some dents..ETC. but minimal....Well ladies and gents, if anyone else has any input, please do so. I appreciate it. Best wishes for the holidays and the new year.

Yup, I've got Titans on the rears of both my 3910 (14.9x28), and my 5610 (18.4x30). I ve never been a great fan of Firestones like so many others! l always thought the old Armstrongs & Safemarks did a better job.
As for the SU's, I've put a [u:1f697a5c88]lot[/u:1f697a5c88] of hours on both 4000's and 4600's, and have a great deal of respect for them!
JMHO, Dave

(quoted from post at 20:36:00 12/23/11) Yup, I've got Titans on the rears of both my 3910 (14.9x28), and my 5610 (18.4x30). I ve never been a great fan of Firestones like so many others! l always thought the old Armstrongs & Safemarks did a better job.
As for the SU's, I've put a [u:3e42bc7e86]lot[/u:3e42bc7e86] of hours on both 4000's and 4600's, and have a great deal of respect for them!
JMHO, Dave

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If the tractor runs good and isn't in too bad of shape WITH A DIESEL, I'd snap it up.. Where is this located? LOL
Wedge

(quoted from post at 22:36:00 12/23/11) Yup, I've got Titans on the rears of both my 3910 (14.9x28), and my 5610 (18.4x30). I ve never been a great fan of Firestones like so many others! l always thought the old Armstrongs & Safemarks did a better job.
As for the SU's, I've put a [u:d62bf5bd27]lot[/u:d62bf5bd27] of hours on both 4000's and 4600's, and have a great deal of respect for them!
JMHO, Dave

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I'm exactly opposite. Too much bad luck with Titans. Give me a Firestone any day.

A 4000 SU is patently nothing more than a 4000 AP with a 3000 front axle. The rest of the tractor is a 4000 proper in every way and feature. The only other difference is the transmission will have the radius rod bosses on the SU whereas the AP will not have them...

Rod

Ditto.... I find Titan's are a great tire until the sidewalls part company. I don't care how much luck anyone has had with Titan's; Firestone is a superiour tire.

Rod

Early 4000's were rated at 45 PTO hp. In mid 68 they were pushed up to 52 on the PTO with the SOS having about 1 hp less. Drawbar is about 5 hp less than PTO. Engines on all diesels was the 3 cylinder 201. Gas engines were a 192 on early ones and I beleive a 201 on later ones.
Bare weight of the tractor is roughly 5500#.
Hydraulics.... IIRC, the three point has full priority over the system... so the remotes can't be used at the same time...

The engine may or may not have a thermostart unit for cold starts. It depends on how it was sold at the time...
Beyond that... in my opinion the 4000 was the best tractor in it's class at the time and for a good while afterwards. Really a canidate for the best tractor ever made if you ask me... Price sounds fair...
I would do my best to discount it by 1500 bucks if it has Titan/Armstrong rubber tho. As far as I'm concerned, they're an explosion waiting for a place to happen.

Rod

(quoted from post at 12:38:17 12/25/11) Early 4000's were rated at 45 PTO hp. In mid 68 they were pushed up to 52 on the PTO with the SOS having about 1 hp less. Drawbar is about 5 hp less than PTO. Engines on all diesels was the 3 cylinder 201. Gas engines were a 192 on early ones and I beleive a 201 on later ones.
Bare weight of the tractor is roughly 5500#.
Hydraulics.... IIRC, the three point has full priority over the system... so the remotes can't be used at the same time...

The engine may or may not have a thermostart unit for cold starts. It depends on how it was sold at the time...
Beyond that... in my opinion the 4000 was the best tractor in it's class at the time and for a good while afterwards. Really a canidate for the best tractor ever made if you ask me... Price sounds fair...
I would do my best to discount it by 1500 bucks if it has Titan/Armstrong rubber tho. As far as I'm concerned, they're an explosion waiting for a place to happen.

Rod

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Rod, that's good info, except my Ford owner's manual claims the weight of a bare 3 cylinder 4000 is only 4375 lbs. It lists the 5000 as being 5300 lbs.

I'd have to check the weights but those numbers sound light to me... I may be heavy on the 4000 but that sounds light on a 5000...
I'm thinking more in terms of 30 series tractors that are a bit heavier tho...

Rod