Hyd Questions Regarding Remote Valves

Hi everyone.

I have a Ford 3000 with a One Arm Loader operated by a Diverter Valve, which allows me to use the standard 3-point handle to raise / lower the loader or by selecting the diverter in the aft position, operate only the 3-point.

I would like to add a loader valve and convert my trip bucket to hydraulic operation.

Here is my question: Do I use the diverter valve to get Hyd oil over to the loader valve or should I buy a "Power Beyond Plate" to get hyd oil to the loader? If I use the Power Beyond option with an open center loader valve what will keep the oil from just flowing thru the loader valve and not allowing it to build pressure and operate the three point?

I would like to have control of the loader and the three point at the same time, without having to divert pressure to either unit. Is this possible with this hyd system?

A remote valve will allow you to use the 3 point and/or loader independently of one another.
For a trip bucket a single spool, single acting valve will do it.
For a loader with hyd up and gravity down plus a hyd bucket you would need a dual spool valve with one spool single acting and one spool double acting. Most Ford style dual spool remote valves you can adjust one of the spools from double acting to single acting.
As for making your one armed bandit have a hyd tilt bucket it could be done fairly easily. If you are good with a torch and welder.
I have both single spool and dual spool remote valves for sale here if you are interested.

you can then sell that diverter valve and recoup some of your costs of that dual spool you may be buying from UD..

i'm sure you will get a buyer here.

soundguy

edited to remove email. I didnt see the links at the bottom of the post.

(quoted from post at 09:43:28 02/23/11) A remote valve will allow you to use the 3 point and/or loader independently of one another.
For a trip bucket a single spool, single acting valve will do it.
For a loader with hyd up and gravity down plus a hyd bucket you would need a dual spool valve with one spool single acting and one spool double acting. Most Ford style dual spool remote valves you can adjust one of the spools from double acting to single acting.
As for making your one armed bandit have a hyd tilt bucket it could be done fairly easily. If you are good with a torch and welder.
I have both single spool and dual spool remote valves for sale here if you are interested.

Click to expand...

email sent

Jerry,
Do you have any pictures of the hydraulic dump bucket conversion.I could use one as I have a trip bucket coming in.Email is carpsATcharterDOTnet.

Thanks

Vito

Never done one Vito.
Just have seen other types of trip loaders converted and it didn't look very hard.

(quoted from post at 15:09:03 02/23/11) Jerry,
Do you have any pictures of the hydraulic dump bucket conversion.I could use one as I have a trip bucket coming in.Email is carpsATcharterDOTnet.

Thanks

Vito

Click to expand...

I think Soundguy has one but I may be wrong on that.

one what?

i have 1-arm loaders on a few tractors.. I'm also using just about all the types of hyds you can to run them.. some with dual valves, some single, some with an aux loader valve, some with a diverter, some with a test port and chained 3pt.. etc.. etc..

soundguy

(quoted from post at 15:09:03 02/23/11) Jerry,
Do you have any pictures of the hydraulic dump bucket conversion.I could use one.....

Click to expand...

Vito:

Here's a pic of my old Ford loader I converted from trip bucket to hydraulic.........





If this is what you're looking for I can post more pics or email them to you. I decided to use the loader frame as my fluid reservior which requires some drilling & welding, but could just as well use an external tank or the tractor's sump.

Jeff

just came across this discussion and am wondering what is the answer to the original question: if using the power beyond plate with an open center loader valve, how is pressure developed in order operate the three point?

The power beyond plate is connected to the open center loader valve with three oil lines. The pressurized oil flows from the power beyond plate, through the open center loader valve and returns to the power beyond plate to power the three point. When the loader valve is operated, the oil is diverted to the loader cylinders, and the return from the loader valve is lead through the third line and returned to the sump. When the loader is operated, pressurized oil is not returned to the power beyond plate, and the three point can't be operated before you release the handles of the loader valve. The three point will keep its position during loader operation.

I did a little more research on this and it seems to me that you would only use the power beyond plate (eg HV5902) if you were using a power beyond capable loader valve. In that scenario pressure comes out the pb plate to the valve, the pb port on the valve then hoses back to the pb port on the plate providing pressure for the 3 pt, and a third line, return, runs from the valve to the plate.

I'm not sure I would want to pipe an oc valve where I knew the return line would be pressurized. Some valves are designed to handle pressure in the return gallery, others not.

If using an oc valve, I believe you would want to use the HV4902 plate which is just pressure out and return in. Pump flow leaves the plate, dumps thru the oc valve and returns to sump via the plate. This should not interfere with 3 point operation as it is designed (I believe) to operate with open center remote valves in the first place. The remote control valves that sit on top of the lift cover are open center from what I have been told, and in studying the diagrams in the tsm, i think i see how it works.

Is this correct or am I missing something?

You are correct, the loader valve needs to be power beyond capable. It is still open center. Your description for the HV5902 power beyond plate is correct. I'm not so sure for the HV4902, but I'm not familiar with this plate. I will try to explain:
The hydraulic system is designed to work with open center valves (except for the tractors with deluxe remote valves and priority packs, which is a completely different system, with closed center valves)
Oil flows from the pump, through the open center remote valves (either OEM remotes or through a power peyond plate and external remotes), through the valves for the three point and returns to the sump. The oil is only marginally pressurized, until a valve (either remote or three point) is operated. When this happens, the oil meets resistance, either in a cylinder or hydraulic motor) and the oil pressure builds up. The oil pressure is limited by the pressure relief valve. The return port of the valve dumps oil to the sump on a separate line. The remotes have priority over the three point, as they break the connection between the pump and the three point valve when they are operated.
If a valve was hooked up as I believe you describe for the HV4902, with the pressure line tee'ed in to the pressure line from the pump to the three point, and the return line dumping to the sump, oil would take the path of least resistance, and dump through the three point valve when you tried to operate the loader.
The other option is that oil flows from the pump, through the pressure port of the plate, through the loader valve, and returns to the tank through the three point valve. If this is the case, the loader would be able to operate, but the three point would introduce back pressure in the system if operated at the same time.

You hit exactly on a point i'm not clear on - that is, when using a tractor mounted remote valve or one of the remote take off plates,
is the pressure actually tee'd (in parallel with the backpressure valve) or is it diverted to the remote first, then returned to the three point
system? If it is tee'd, then yes, the flow would just continue to dump over the backpressure and unloading valves and not generate enough pressure to work the loader. If it's diverted through the remote valve first, then as you said the circuit to the three point is blocked when the loader valve operates and the loader has priority (which makes the most sense to me).

I'm just guessing now, but if the tractor mounted remote valves break the circuit, then should not the plates also, including the 4902? And if the valves do break the circuit, then their return ports do feed the 3 pt and must be designed for full pressure.

Thanks much for all of the input..

I was able to find some info on the HV4902. The oil flow is diverted through the loader valve, and returns to the plate where it flows through the three point valve and to the sump. Thre is no direct return to tank as for the HV5902 plate, and trying to operate the three point at the same time as the loader would generate backpressure in the system.
The valves must be able to take the full pressure, as they feed the three point.