860 input shaft seal problems

jdiesel · Jan 7, 2009

i am an experianced machanic and i run a business repairing tractors and selling parts, so i am a little embarassed to ask this. i am in the middle of an engine OH and replacing the clutch and input shaft seals. when i drove the trans input seal into the pto shaft, it fell into the bore, i pulled the seal back out(with my fingers) and measured the bore and the seal, they are the same. the bore is 1.507 and according to the seal manufacture it should be 1.499. i have done this job serveral times before and everything was ok. i got a new national seal and had the same problem, the original seal came from CNH and was a CR seal. has anyone ran into this before? i know that it will not seal and i will probably open the ID of the pto shaft up to the next seal size, 1.512. just wanted to know if anyone has seen this or if i just have a mis-made shaft. the strange thing is the old seal pulled out good with enough press. i'm stumped.

souNdguy · Jan 7, 2009

1, what were the numbers on the old seal ( if they can be read ).. and 2, are we for sure talking pto shaft.. or trans input here?

soundguy

awhtx · Jan 7, 2009

I rebuilt the 5 speed in my 861D a few years ago and I replaced both the seal and the needle bearing between the dual input shafts without any problems.

souNdguy · Jan 7, 2009

How bad was that dual clutch money wise?

soundguy

Wayne IA · Jan 7, 2009

We are talking about the seal that goes inside the PTO input shaft and seals against the transmission input shaft? PN D6NN-7A283 A. Once in a great while the FordNH part numbers change to CNH part numbers don't always come up with interchangable parts.Been there once. Was the seal in a CNH bag? if so, try again!

awhtx · Jan 7, 2009

Less than $400 for a rebuilt one from Hy-Capacity.
Is your 660 needing a clutch?

jdiesel · Jan 7, 2009

to answer all of your questions, yes it was a ford cross to cnh, it was the right crossed seal to the old seal that i dug out, yes it is the pto input shaft that is around the trans input. i am going to try a rubber coated national seal, i have found sometimes they will take to a slightly larger bore, if that does not work, i will re-bore the inside of the shaft for the next seal size to fit. just like you guys said, i have never seen this before, i guess you have'nt either. and as for the cost on the clutch, we normally have them rebuilt, i dont have the exact number in my head but i want to say it is around $350.

richardp3 · Jan 7, 2009

I just replaced both seals on the input shaft on my 64' 4000 (seals provided by local CNH dealer) and had no problems. Sorry I can't be of more help.

souNdguy · Jan 8, 2009

No.. not yet anyways...but I always like to keep ideas of prices and dealers in mind.. you sound like you got a great deal.. I've heard of people paying near a grand for a double clutch from the 5spd.

soundguy

souNdguy · Jan 8, 2009

Keep us posted on what you find with the national seal when you go to fit it.

no way to spedi-sleave that ID is there?.. retaining it with loctite.. etc?

soundguy

jdiesel · Jan 8, 2009

i thought of the internal speedi-sleeve, but the problem is pressing it into the id of the shaft, there is not much surface to drive on. with a lathe in the shop i have found a CR seal that will work and i only have to take .005" out of the shaft, i feel much more comfortable with that. i think every now and then in the factory, someone decided to play a practiacal joke on a future mechanic and it really bites us in the a## when we tear it appart 50 years later.

lonestarjeff · Jan 8, 2009

I replaced both seals(among other things)this past year. No problems w/ either one fitting properly.

I pulled the CNH invoice...the seal part #'s are: D6NN7A283A & 8N4233A. I can't remember which one is front/rear.

Jeff

jdiesel · Jan 9, 2009

NOPE!!! i over looked one little thing, the shaft is hard as a bi%&h i can not turn it on the lathe it must be ground to whatever deminsion is needes. i bought two more seals and some loctite 638 retaining compound and let one seal sit in the shaft all night. when i came in this morning, i pulled the face of the seal apart before the loctite let go of the bore. that is some agressive stuff. that is how the tractor will go back together, but i have made a note in this tractors file and in my I&T manual to measure the next one i do just for curiosity. i was wondering if anyone out there had one of these five speeds apart right now and could get me an acurate measurement of your pto input shaft. this problem child is 1.507" the seal is 1.5075-1.508 maybe i am being to picky on how a seal should fit into a piece. but at least now i think i can sleep at night knowing this thing won't leak when it leaves my shop.

860 input shaft seal problems

jdiesel

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souNdguy

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awhtx

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souNdguy

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Wayne IA

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awhtx

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jdiesel

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richardp3

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souNdguy

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souNdguy

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jdiesel

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lonestarjeff

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jdiesel

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