Yesterday's Tractor Co. The Right Parts, Right Away
Click Here or call 800-853-2651 
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 
Marketplace
Tractor Manuals
Tractor Parts
Classified Ads
Photo Ads

Community
Discussion Forums
Project Journals
Tractor Town
Your Stories
Show & Pull Guide
Events Calendar
Hauling Schedule

Galleries
Tractor Photos
Implement Photos
Vintage Photos
Help Identify
Parts & Pieces
Stuck & Troubled
Vintage Ads
Community Album
Photo Ad Archives

Research & Info
Articles
Tractor Registry
Tip of the Day
Safety Cartoons
Tractor Values
Serial Numbers
Tune-Up Guide
Paint Codes
List Prices
Production Nbrs
Tune-Up Specs
Torque Values
3-Point Specs
Glossary

Miscellaneous
Tractor Games
Just For Kids
Virtual Show
Museum Guide
Memorial Page
Feedback Form

Yesterday's Tractors Facebook Page

Related Sites
Tractor Shed
TractorLinks.com
Ford 8N/9N Club
Today's Tractors
Garden Tractors
Classic Trucks
Kountry Life
Enter your email address to receive our newsletter!

subscribe
unsubscribe
  
Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

Roosa Master Injection pump 63 or 64 172CI Engine Ford 4000

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author  [Modern View]
Dan Francis

05-25-2008 08:21:29
67.142.130.43



Report to Moderator

I have a DBGVCC 429 4AL on my 63 or 64 Ford 4000. I think the govenor ring is going out. It will surge to high RPM's and the throttle will not respond well at all. Just a slight tap down it will die, slight tap up it will rev up too high. Will a leak in the fuel return line cause this? Does anyone know if a DBGVCC 435 16AP pump will work in place of this one. I do know the plunger size is bigger but what other differences are there. I recently cleaned the fuel tank, changed the filter so I am dealing with good fuel delivery. It's wierd though, one day I can start it up and it runs great just like it should and another time start it up and it wants to run crazy. Will the govenor ring cause that?

Thanks

Dan

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
rkpatt

06-24-2008 08:57:48
66.32.133.63



Report to Moderator
 Re: Roosa Master Injection pump 63 or 64 172CI Engine Ford 4 in reply to Dan Francis, 05-25-2008 08:21:29  
I am in the middle of a problem with freshly rebuilt 8 cyl Roosa Master / Stanadyne pump DB2 injection pumps that seems to have stuck metering valve . I was searching with google and found ytag.com and this great thread .

Here is link to a military manual for some GM diesels which has rebuild info for some DB2 injector pumps in chapter 2 -

http://www.badongo.com/file/9532103

Thanks



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dan Francis

06-14-2008 11:57:21
67.142.130.43



Report to Moderator
 Re: Roosa Master Injection pump 63 or 64 172CI Engine For... in reply to Dan Francis, 05-25-2008 08:21:29  
I want to thank everyone for the help and let y'all know that I have gotten the pump fixed up and resealed with the new governor assembly and the tractor is running great now.

Thanks

Dan
This post was edited by Dan Francis at 11:57:55 06/14/08.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dan Francis

06-09-2008 19:29:38
67.142.130.20



Report to Moderator
 Re: Roosa Master Injection pump 63 or 64 172CI Engine For... in reply to Dan Francis, 05-25-2008 08:21:29  
Never mind I found out that the new EID replaces the whole thing and have got one.
Thanks

Dan



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dan Francis

06-08-2008 12:30:49
72.171.0.138



Report to Moderator
 Re: Roosa Master Injection pump 63 or 64 172CI Engine For... in reply to GLC, 05-25-2008 08:21:29  
Finally got the pump apart. The plastic ring is gone. The weight retainer is in 2 pieces there is the part that holds the weights and then the plate, one of the rivets came out of the plate. If I purchase the newer EID retainer will that replace the whole govenor assembly(plate, retainer and ring)? Or will I have to buy a new govenor plate? What are the part#'s I will need?

Thanks

Dan

jdemaris said: (quoted from post at 13:23:20 05/26/08) Shattered plastic governor dampener ring sends small pieces of plastic all through the pump and often creates overly high housing pressure - which result in the problems like you describe.

Often leads to engine shut-down.

I had to fix many - out in the woods and field when I was a Deere mechanic. Deere,Case,IH, Ford, AC, Hercules, et. al. all use some versions of the same pump.

A complete seal kit with a new dampener is $12. A person with experience can pull the pump all apart, reseal and put back togeher - in one hour.

There is an updated dampener that can be installed and it will never come apart again - for an extra $40 (EID retainer). Stanadyne used it in all the pumps after 1985.

If your pump has high hours - you can assume it will need a few more parts than just the seal kit - if you want to replace them while apart. Main wear items are -

front drive bushing where the shaft-seals ride - new one cost $10.

fuel metering-valve - $12

fuel pump vanes and liner - $16.

That's about it - most pumps that get "rebuilt"

at a Stanadyne-certified only get those parts plus a seal kit. $50 in parts total. Cleaned up, put on a test-stand, fuel delivery and timing advance checked - and then a $350-$650 repair bill.

If you are careful - no adjustments get altered. You can, however, check the max. fuel delivery setting while apart with a 2" micrometer.

Timing advance can be checked on a running machine with a $8 plastic timing window - or a conventional timing light hooked to a piezo-pickup on an injector line.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dan Francis

05-27-2008 04:34:52
67.142.130.13



Report to Moderator
 Re: A few photos in reply to vtrwillie, 05-25-2008 08:21:29  
Well have the seal kit and a roosa master manual on the way. I think I can get it done. I am mechanically inclined and can usaully fix just about anything I put my mind to. I have rebuilt about 3 or 4 different carburetors before although it's been awhile. Any suprises I should know about while opening it up? I have read this post:

http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=jd&th=163321

Is it about the same (make sure I have it upside down when pulling housing off?)

Also the check valve I read about so much is that in the pump under the cover or should it be in the 90 degree fitting for the fuel return line. I just recently replaced that 90 due to the return line leaking and didn't see any type of ball and spring.
Would you happen to have the parts list for that image you posted of the pump? I have been able to find alot of different images, but that is the clearest yet and also has more of the parts numbered for details.

Thanks

Dan


jdemaris said: (quoted from post at 19:53:38 05/26/08) Pump has to come off the engine and then separated into two halves to get to the governor weight assembly for repair. Here's a few photos.

<a href="http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/?action=viewĄt=weightretainerringoldstyle.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/weightretainerringoldstyle.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/?action=viewĄt=DBDisassembledPump-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/DBDisassembledPump-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/?action=viewĄt=dbsideways.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/dbsideways.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Seyiwmz

05-26-2008 18:51:22
69.217.52.240



Report to Moderator
 Re: A few photos in reply to Kirk-NJ, 05-25-2008 08:21:29  
Awesome work you've done. I opened up my "Roosa Master" DB2-4627, 3 cyl. I have a manual on it, but got scared a bit and didn't get to far. Without really opening it up like your pictures, it seems to look good otherwise. But it doesn't pump pressure to the injectors. The one thing the pump does weird, is that when you spin the gear, the barrel with the timing mark doesn't always spin. If I spin it fast with some fuel in the bottom it catches and turns a little. Is this normal, or is my problem related to this I wonder.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Larry NCKS

05-26-2008 11:13:20
64.12.116.144



Report to Moderator
 Re: Roosa Master Injection pump 63 or 64 172CI Engine For... in reply to soundguy, 05-25-2008 08:21:29  
no it's not. pump must be disassembled



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dan Francis

05-26-2008 08:34:29
72.171.0.142



Report to Moderator
 Re: Roosa Master Injection pump 63 or 64 172CI Engine For... in reply to MarkB_MI, 05-25-2008 08:21:29  
Is it possible to replace the govenor ring without taking the pump off the engine?


jdemaris said: (quoted from post at 13:23:20 05/26/08) Shattered plastic governor dampener ring sends small pieces of plastic all through the pump and often creates overly high housing pressure - which result in the problems like you describe.

Often leads to engine shut-down.

I had to fix many - out in the woods and field when I was a Deere mechanic. Deere,Case,IH, Ford, AC, Hercules, et. al. all use some versions of the same pump.

A complete seal kit with a new dampener is $12. A person with experience can pull the pump all apart, reseal and put back togeher - in one hour.

There is an updated dampener that can be installed and it will never come apart again - for an extra $40 (EID retainer). Stanadyne used it in all the pumps after 1985.

If your pump has high hours - you can assume it will need a few more parts than just the seal kit - if you want to replace them while apart. Main wear items are -

front drive bushing where the shaft-seals ride - new one cost $10.

fuel metering-valve - $12

fuel pump vanes and liner - $16.

That's about it - most pumps that get "rebuilt"

at a Stanadyne-certified only get those parts plus a seal kit. $50 in parts total. Cleaned up, put on a test-stand, fuel delivery and timing advance checked - and then a $350-$650 repair bill.

If you are careful - no adjustments get altered. You can, however, check the max. fuel delivery setting while apart with a 2" micrometer.

Timing advance can be checked on a running machine with a $8 plastic timing window - or a conventional timing light hooked to a piezo-pickup on an injector line.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jdemaris

05-26-2008 11:53:38
67.142.130.17



Report to Moderator
 A few photos in reply to Dan Francis, 05-26-2008 08:34:29  
Pump has to come off the engine and then separated into two halves to get to the governor weight assembly for repair. Here's a few photos.

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jdemaris

05-26-2008 05:23:20
67.142.130.31



Report to Moderator
 Re: Roosa Master Injection pump 63 or 64 172CI Engine For... in reply to Dan Francis, 05-25-2008 08:21:29  
Shattered plastic governor dampener ring sends small pieces of plastic all through the pump and often creates overly high housing pressure - which result in the problems like you describe.
Often leads to engine shut-down.

I had to fix many - out in the woods and field when I was a Deere mechanic. Deere,Case,IH, Ford, AC, Hercules, et. al. all use some versions of the same pump.

A complete seal kit with a new dampener is $12. A person with experience can pull the pump all apart, reseal and put back togeher - in one hour.

There is an updated dampener that can be installed and it will never come apart again - for an extra $40 (EID retainer). Stanadyne used it in all the pumps after 1985.

If your pump has high hours - you can assume it will need a few more parts than just the seal kit - if you want to replace them while apart. Main wear items are - front drive bushing where the shaft-seals ride - new one cost $10.

fuel metering-valve - $12

fuel pump vanes and liner - $16.

That's about it - most pumps that get "rebuilt"
at a Stanadyne-certified only get those parts plus a seal kit. $50 in parts total. Cleaned up, put on a test-stand, fuel delivery and timing advance checked - and then a $350-$650 repair bill.

If you are careful - no adjustments get altered. You can, however, check the max. fuel delivery setting while apart with a 2" micrometer.
Timing advance can be checked on a running machine with a $8 plastic timing window - or a conventional timing light hooked to a piezo-pickup on an injector line.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Larry NCKS

05-26-2008 04:58:03
205.188.116.144



Report to Moderator
 Re: Roosa Master Injection pump 63 or 64 172CI Engine For... in reply to chris777, 05-25-2008 08:21:29  
There should be a stanpipe in the tank. It should keep fuel from running out the return when disconnected. Some of these are broken off. That should not alter engine/pump performance, however.

As to the different numbers on the pumps, I would expect different calibrations, timing, etc. unless you know that it came off a 172 cu in Ford engine in an 8 or 9*0 or 1 or a 4000. It would'nt be something I'd want to just "try", unless I knew exactly what it was!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dan Francis

05-25-2008 20:53:04
67.142.130.34



Report to Moderator
 Re: Roosa Master Injection pump 63 or 64 172CI Engine For... in reply to Dan Francis, 05-25-2008 08:21:29  
The return line to tank is clear it will run a steady stream of fuel from the tank if disconnected from the pump. Also the tank is vented fine. Is there supposed to be a check valve in the fuel return line? If so is it at the T on the bottom of the tank or in the injection pump itself? To me it seems like what is happening is that when the return line is connected to the pump the pump is somehow getting extra fuel back from the tank and revving, is that possible?

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
awhtx

05-25-2008 18:30:40
72.26.142.248



Report to Moderator
 Re: Roosa Master Injection pump 63 or 64 172CI Engine For... in reply to Dan Francis, 05-25-2008 08:21:29  
As you have stated the "429" pump has 4 plungers each of which is .290" in diameter and the "435" pump has 4 plungers each of which is .350" in diameter. The "4" and "16" near the end of each model are specification numbers and the "AL" and "AP" are accessory codes. If the pump fits I would say go ahead and try it. It looks like the 2 pumps are basically the same.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dan Francis

05-25-2008 19:17:34
67.142.130.39



Report to Moderator
 Re: Roosa Master Injection pump 63 or 64 172CI Engine For... in reply to awhtx, 05-25-2008 18:30:40  
awhtx do you have any idea of what the accessory codes stand for on each?

Thanks

Dan



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
awhtx

05-25-2008 20:11:40
72.26.142.248



Report to Moderator
 Re: Roosa Master Injection pump 63 or 64 172CI Engine For... in reply to Dan Francis, 05-25-2008 19:17:34  
No, nothing in the book about the differences. My 1958 861D has a DBVGCC4298AJ which is the same as your pump until you get to those Specification and Accessory codes. Apparently those differences are minor in nature. I'd swap them out and give it a try if I were you.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Brian Allen

05-25-2008 14:18:56
216.59.225.25



Report to Moderator
 Re: Roosa Master Injection pump 63 or 64 172CI Engine For... in reply to Dan Francis, 05-25-2008 08:21:29  
Dan

Check your return line all the way back, including the connection on the tank, to see if you have a blockage somewhere.

Also check your vent on the fuel cap.

Try running with the cap off, it may have a plugged vent.

Post back.

Brian



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dan Francis

05-25-2008 12:33:33
67.142.130.19



Report to Moderator
 Re: Roosa Master Injection pump 63 or 64 172CI Engine For... in reply to Dan Francis, 05-25-2008 08:21:29  
Also another thing if I disconnect the pump fuel return line it will run normal with good throttle response, fuel does come out the return hole on pump. When disconnecting the fuel return line should fuel flow freely out of that line from the tank?

Thanks

Dan



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dan Francis

05-25-2008 12:14:21
67.142.130.19



Report to Moderator
 Re: Roosa Master Injection pump 63 or 64 172CI Engine For... in reply to Dan Francis, 05-25-2008 08:21:29  
Any body have any ideas on the other pump I mentioned? It looks like it should mount up.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
awhtx

05-25-2008 13:13:16
71.97.4.145



Report to Moderator
 Re: Roosa Master Injection pump 63 or 64 172CI Engine For... in reply to Dan Francis, 05-25-2008 12:14:21  
I have a book at home that decodes the model numbers on RoosaMaster pumps. I"m at work now but when I get home tonight I"ll look it up.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Larry NCKS

05-25-2008 09:57:11
64.12.116.144



Report to Moderator
 Re: Roosa Master Injection pump 63 or 64 172CI Engine Ford 4 in reply to JM in Merit, 05-25-2008 08:21:29  

Dan Francis said: (quoted from post at 10:21:29 05/25/08) I have a DBGVCC 429 4AL on my 63 or 64 Ford 4000. I think the govenor ring is going out. It will surge to high RPM's and the throttle will not respond well at all. Just a slight tap down it will die, slight tap up it will rev up too high. Will a leak in the fuel return line cause this? Does anyone know if a DBGVCC 435 16AP pump will work in place of this one. I do know the plunger size is bigger but what other differences are there. I recently cleaned the fuel tank, changed the filter so I am dealing with good fuel delivery. It's wierd though, one day I can start it up and it runs great just like it should and another time start it up and it wants to run crazy. Will the govenor ring cause that?

Thanks

Dan


Yes, that sounds like a governor ring. There is a bit more to it than just buying the 30 dollar kit as JB suggests. You need to know what you're doing when you start working on one of these. Somewhere in the archives is pretty detailed post I wrote on proceedure. Do a search and you should find it.

The old plastic governor ring has become brittle and disintegrated. Little pieces of it are sporadically clogging your return causing your symptoms. The pump needs to be totally disassembled and cleaned and put back together with new seals and governor ring.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
john_bud

05-25-2008 08:51:17
72.171.0.141



Report to Moderator
 Re: Roosa Master Injection pump 63 or 64 172CI Engine For... in reply to Dan Francis, 05-25-2008 08:21:29  
It sounds like governor ring debris. Only one way to find out.

You can get a kit to rebuild (well, reseal and fix the ring) from ebay for about 30-40 bucks.

jb



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:

TRACTOR   PARTS TRACTOR   MANUALS
Same-Day Shipping! Most of our stocked parts ship the same day you order (M-F).  Expedited shipping available, just call!  Most prices for parts and manuals are below our competitors.  Compare our super low shipping rates!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor.  We are a Company you can trust and have generous return policies!   Shop Online Today or call our friendly sales staff toll free (800) 853-2651. [ More Info ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2014 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters