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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

ferguson no start

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bones774

01-26-2018 07:39:26




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Hi, My first post, thanks.

I just picked up a 49 to-20 with 6v positive ground original.

The unit has excellent service records till parked inside in 2010.

I went to view the unit and the seller was using a 12v LiOn charger box and palced the terminal wrong, pos to neg and neg t pos. He demoed the tractor spun but not start and sounded ok. I dont know how many times he did this before. I told him he may have fried some electrics. So i bought the unit, the battery is dead but i jumped it properly, no start and no spark.

Can anyone give me a methodical way to start analysing the tractor before i just start throwing parts at it? First step, second step etc.

Thanks

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bones774

02-22-2018 17:08:05




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 Re: ferguson no start in reply to bones774, 01-26-2018 07:39:26  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Will that also define if coil is functioning? Yes i have a VOM.[/quote]

Not with any certainty. If you read 0 ohms, it is toast. If you read the 1.5 ohms for a 6 volt coil, during use it can still open or short internally because of the high voltages that are created. If you measure between either small connection and the center output connection, it should measure between 6000 and 10000 ohms.[/quote]

UPDATE- I cleaned points, drained old gas, fresh gas and new battery, started right up, nice.

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Ron(Ont)

01-30-2018 05:06:35




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 Re: ferguson no start in reply to bones774, 01-26-2018 07:39:26  
[/quote]

Will that also define if coil is functioning? Yes i have a VOM.[/quote]

Not with any certainty. If you read 0 ohms, it is toast. If you read the 1.5 ohms for a 6 volt coil, during use it can still open or short internally because of the high voltages that are created. If you measure between either small connection and the center output connection, it should measure between 6000 and 10000 ohms.

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bones774

01-29-2018 20:39:33




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 Re: ferguson no start in reply to bones774, 01-26-2018 07:39:26  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see No, definitely not universal. Do you have a multimeter. A 12 volt coil will measure about 3 ohms and a 6 volt coil will measure about 1.5 ohms between the two small connections with nuts on them.[/quote]

Will that also define if coil is functioning? Yes i have a VOM.



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Ron(Ont)

01-29-2018 17:03:53




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 Re: ferguson no start in reply to bones774, 01-26-2018 07:39:26  
How about ign coil? 6v or 12v? universal?[/quote] No, definitely not universal. Do you have a multimeter. A 12 volt coil will measure about 3 ohms and a 6 volt coil will measure about 1.5 ohms between the two small connections with nuts on them.



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bones774

01-29-2018 08:26:50




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 Re: ferguson no start in reply to bones774, 01-26-2018 07:39:26  
This is just what i was looking for. I tried some of it, no spark at coil wire or points but i didn't have a good 6v source. Gonna try again when i put new battery in. thanks



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bones774

01-29-2018 08:25:22




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 Re: ferguson no start in reply to bones774, 01-26-2018 07:39:26  
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How about ign coil? 6v or 12v? universal?



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Ron(Ont)

01-29-2018 05:54:54




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 Re: ferguson no start in reply to bones774, 01-26-2018 07:39:26  
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When trying to get the ignition system working, it is best to asses things in a logical order. If you pull the coil cable from the dizzy place it near the chassis, about 1/4", and check for a spark. Make sure you have 12 volts to the dizzy. This,for now, eliminates the rotor, spark plugs and wires as possible problem contributors.

If you have no spark, you are back to points and condenser (and coil wire, perhaps). Pull off the dizzy cap and crank the engine, ignition on. If you have a large spark across the points, the condenser is not working. There should be just a small spark.

It could be a dead condenser, but my biggest problem was always the ground connection for the condenser. You can check for this if you can have a helper crank the engine and try and connect an external ground, a small jumper wire, attached to a good clean chassis bolt, and then scratch away at the condenser case. If the spark across the points gets substantially smaller, than the ground is the problem.

You can do the same sort of test with a new condenser and jumper cables letting the new condenser dangle outside the dizzy. Disconnect one end of the old one first.

Then, once you have spark at the coil wire, reconnect it to the dizzy and try holding each spark plug wire 1/4" from the chassis and look for a spark. If that works, hold it near the spark plug tip and again it should spark.

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bones774

01-28-2018 16:54:45




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 Re: ferguson no start in reply to bones774, 01-26-2018 07:39:26  
I used some very fine sandpaper right away and it did not work. I was wondering if the 12 v reversed jump might have damaged the condenser initially. I was very excited to just file and start :(



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PackardV8

01-29-2018 06:32:19




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 Re: ferguson no start in reply to bones774, 01-28-2018 16:54:45  
Condensor is a Condensor. There is no such thing as pos or neg ground Condensor. No such thing as 6v or 12v condenser.
A condenser is condenser assuming ANY gas engine application.

But maybe try another condenser anyway.



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PackardV8

01-28-2018 15:40:15




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 Re: ferguson no start in reply to bones774, 01-26-2018 07:39:26  
Cheap,fast,ez things FIRST! Obtain a points file or just use some 200 grit sand paper and litely file the points contacts. Best to use a points file. NO DISASSEMBLY REQUIRED!



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bones774

01-28-2018 08:06:53




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 Re: ferguson no start in reply to bones774, 01-26-2018 07:39:26  
Ok, i'm gonna go thru all the tips and get back to you. It will be a slow go though, the tractor is at another location w/o wifi and i have to get there and then to wifi to report back.

You don't seem to a concern about the electrics at all. In reading previous posts i see that one of the big r&r is the condenser? While i'm away i'll be picking one up anyway. Thanks



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Steve@Advance

01-26-2018 11:50:55




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 Re: ferguson no start in reply to bones774, 01-26-2018 07:39:26  
Welcome Bones!

Don't worry about anything being damaged by reversing the polarity.

Being the battery is at least 7-8 years old, chances are it is bad.

You can continue to try getting it started by jumping it with 12v, just don't crank on it too long or leave the ignition on.

Start by cracking engine oil and transmission/rear housing plugs and check for water. Let the water drip out, but don't drain the oils yet. Check the oil levels, if any excessively low, top them up. Check the coolant, top it up with 50/50 antifreeze. Pull the plugs, put a little light oil in each cylinder, let it soak while checking other things.

Next, go to the ignition system. Be sure you are getting power to the coil with the ignition on. Next check the points, be sure they are properly set, and making contact. They may need cleaning, oxidized from sitting. Use contact cleaner, brake cleaner, or carb cleaner and a paper business card drawn between the contacts. The coil should produce a good spark each time the points are opened, it needs to jump at least 3/4" at the coil wire to ground.

Take a look in the gas tank. If empty, look at the rust situation. Chances are the tank will have significant rust unless it has been changed. Look for obvious holes.

If there is fuel in the tank, unless it was recently filled, it will need to be drained and replaced with fresh gas.

For now, you are just trying to get it running, so don't get too involved in the tank. Just be careful that it doesn't leak. Eventually it will probably need to be cleaned or replaced.

There is a drain plug in the bottom of the carb. Pull the plug, turn on the gas, catch what comes out in a clean glass. It should have a steady flow, not slow to a drip or stop. If it is not a good flow, there is a restriction, could be in the tank, the separator screen, the float stuck, etc. Process of elimination to get the fuel flowing, and stopping when the bowl is full.

Look at what was caught in the glass. If rusty, dirty, water contaminated, cloudy, the tank is contaminated. You may want to use a temporary fuel tank for test purposes.

Before putting the plugs back in, spin the engine through to blow the excess oil out. Check for spark again, this time at each wire at the plug end. Should get 1/2" spark.

Should be ready to start now. If still no start, run a compression test. Could have stuck valves from sitting. They can usually be freed up with rust penetrant and tapping with a small hammer.

Once you get it running, and it appears to be practical to proceed, get a new battery. You will want to polarize the generator, just to be sure since there is a polarity question.

Now, that it is running, take it out for a drive, put it through all the motions. Make a list of everything that isn't right. That way it can all be fixed at once, no going back taking it apart again!

Let us know!

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