T20 Electrical help?

Montana Jim

New User
I just reacquired a 1948 Ferguson which my grandfather had owned forever. It had gone to a buddy of mine then back to me.
My problem: When I got it back yesterday, the positive ground system was hooked up in reverse on the battery. Now I can't get any spark and definitely no start. Even connecting the ignition switch wires does nothing. I don't know if everything got toasted due to the cross wiring or I may have a simple problem. My plan is to restore my gramp's tractor but getting it running is first. Thanks for your help hopefully. I'm brand new to your site. It looks great!
 
Welcome Jim!

Can you give us some more details on the electrical system?

Is it still 6 volt with a generator?

Or has it been changed to 12 volt with an alternator?

Is the original starter contactor still on the shift linkage, or is there a solenoid?

If it still has a generator, reversed polarity is no big deal, won't harm anything. It would just need to be put back to positive ground and the generator polarized. If still 6 volt, everything needs to be right for it to work. Large cables, clean and tight connections, healthy battery, good starter, and engine tuned for easy starts.

If it has an alternator, it will need to remain negative ground. Twelve volt has it's advantages, easy starts, more reliable charging. But it can also be hard on the starter and flywheel gear.

Things to check, if it's been sitting a long time, the points are probably corroded. Sometimes they can be cleaned and made to work.

Also the fuel system may need attention. The tanks are prone to rust, contaminate the fuel and clog the carb. Also the gas can go bad with age.

Getting it running before starting a restoration is a good idea. Put it through it's paces, find all the problem before going into it. That way everything can be done at once, no surprises when it's all back together.

As for the term "restoration"... That can take on several meanings. If this is your first tractor project, proceed with caution! Think carefully how far you want to get into this, and plan accordingly. These projects can easily become overwhelming, both monetarily, and physically challenging. A true restoration involves a total tear down, meticulously cleaning, inspecting, and repairing each piece to factory specs, no aftermarket parts allowed! Something that is reserved for show quality restorations where time and money are not a concern.

What most of us do is go for a more practical approach. As you evaluate it's present condition, be thinking about what your end result will be. Consider the intended use, will it be used for show and parades? Limited use? Or daily work? Most fall into the limited use category, something you can be proud of when it's done, and still not be afraid to get it dirty.

Hopefully you have a shop with a concrete floor, and plenty of room to spread this thing out! You will need a place to store bagged and labeled parts as they are removed, cleaned, painted, and readied for reassembly. Take lots of pictures! Most times, the cast parts are cleaned thoroughly, then primed and rattle can painted. The sheet metal can be painted at home, if you feel comfortable doing it and have the facilities. It is a messy job! Usually best done by professionals.

But the most important, and commonly omitted step... Get a shop manual first! Read it several times through. You will be amazed what you find, the little things that make a difference in success and failure!

Good luck! Keep in touch, no such thing as a dumb question!
 
(quoted from post at 15:47:19 10/29/17) Welcome Jim!

Can you give us some more details on the electrical system?

Is it still 6 volt with a generator?

Or has it been changed to 12 volt with an alternator?

Is the original starter contactor still on the shift linkage, or is there a solenoid?

If it still has a generator, reversed polarity is no big deal, won't harm anything. It would just need to be put back to positive ground and the generator polarized. If still 6 volt, everything needs to be right for it to work. Large cables, clean and tight connections, healthy battery, good starter, and engine tuned for easy starts.

If it has an alternator, it will need to remain negative ground. Twelve volt has it's advantages, easy starts, more reliable charging. But it can also be hard on the starter and flywheel gear.

Things to check, if it's been sitting a long time, the points are probably corroded. Sometimes they can be cleaned and made to work.

Also the fuel system may need attention. The tanks are prone to rust, contaminate the fuel and clog the carb. Also the gas can go bad with age.

Getting it running before starting a restoration is a good idea. Put it through it's paces, find all the problem before going into it. That way everything can be done at once, no surprises when it's all back together.

As for the term "restoration"... That can take on several meanings. If this is your first tractor project, proceed with caution! Think carefully how far you want to get into this, and plan accordingly. These projects can easily become overwhelming, both monetarily, and physically challenging. A true restoration involves a total tear down, meticulously cleaning, inspecting, and repairing each piece to factory specs, no aftermarket parts allowed! Something that is reserved for show quality restorations where time and money are not a concern.

What most of us do is go for a more practical approach. As you evaluate it's present condition, be thinking about what your end result will be. Consider the intended use, will it be used for show and parades? Limited use? Or daily work? Most fall into the limited use category, something you can be proud of when it's done, and still not be afraid to get it dirty.

Hopefully you have a shop with a concrete floor, and plenty of room to spread this thing out! You will need a place to store bagged and labeled parts as they are removed, cleaned, painted, and readied for reassembly. Take lots of pictures! Most times, the cast parts are cleaned thoroughly, then primed and rattle can painted. The sheet metal can be painted at home, if you feel comfortable doing it and have the facilities. It is a messy job! Usually best done by professionals.

But the most important, and commonly omitted step... Get a shop manual first! Read it several times through. You will be amazed what you find, the little things that make a difference in success and failure!

Good luck! Keep in touch, no such thing as a dumb question!

Hello Steve:

Thanks much for your response. The info:

The tractor is still 6 volt with a generator and uses the shifter to start. I appreciate your thoughts on restoration and do plan to take a practical approach for all the reasons you mentioned. I can take my time as we're going into winter here and I will have space inside a shop but my main goal right now is to get it running. My friend who had the tractor for several years delivered it yesterday. He replaced the battery and had it running fine. He said he started it three times before bringing it to me and there was no problem. Upon his last attempt, the ignition switch seemed loose and there was no fire at all. We tried several things once it was here and no luck. Connecting the two ignition switch wires didn't work and I believe the new battery is dead. I observed that the connection he made is negative ground which I think is wrong. The tractor has always been a positive ground system.
I am taking your advise and ordering manuals. I assume the service manual and the operating manual are the two to get? Thanks again for your response and help. I really need it.
 
Did previous owner replace the battery shortly before he delivered it? Was the battery still well charged when you got it.

If it had been positive ground, with generator polarized for positive ground, and he put replacement battery in negative ground and started and ran it there is a possibility it fried points in the regulator and ran the battery down. If so it could also overheat the points and possibly the coil.
 

If it were hooked up in reverse, negative to negative etc., would he have been able to start it three times after the new battery was installed?
 
My TO 20 is 6 volt negative ground. It was that way when I got it. It has always charged fine. I asked the man who owned the Massey
Ferguson/Ford dealership from the 60's until the late 90's if that was correct. He said yes and that the Ford 8N's were positive
ground. I haven't checked any service manuals but I have been told on these forums that Fergusons should be positive ground.
 
Yes, positive ground can be confusing because most tractors and vehicles built in the past 50+ years have been negative ground.

Positive and negative ground are like right hand and left hand threads on a bolt. With bolts the threads turn in opposite directions, with positive and negative ground current flows through the system in opposite directions.

Positive or negative ground was a choice, nothing sacred or mysterious about either. Generator must be polarized to match battery polarity, ammeter should be connected to show ? for discharge and + for charge, and coil connected to match battery polarity (+post to side of distributor for positive ground, - to distributor for negative ground). Some generator regulators are marked for positive or negative ground. Starter will turn same direction either way. Lights, wires, switches do not care.

If a tractor that came from the factory positive ground were properly configured for negative ground it would run just as well.

With A positive ground tractor properly converted to negative ground, it is true that it was ORIGINALLY positive ground, but now, the battery installed with negative ground is CORRECT and AS IT SHOULD BE.

(Unless specially modified, modern alternators are negative ground.)

I hope this helps clear up some of the confusion
 

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