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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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PhilH

08-12-2017 13:51:12




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Well I want to thank you all for the input and post you put here, got the TO 30 back running again. I have a couple issues and once again need to pick the thoughts of the Knowledge base. My first question is when i start the tractor my ammeter pegs a 30 pn the positive side, now it use do this then eventually drop to 0-5 amps now it does not just stays at 30 any ideas.
Second is when I start the tractor the starter drags but if i hit the choke it starts right up, could this be a timing issue or starter issue?
Last is it worth the investment converting the starter to 12 Volt instead of using the resistor to convert. I run 1/0 cable positive and negative comments, thank you.

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PhilH

08-16-2017 03:54:00




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 Re: Question in reply to PhilH, 08-12-2017 13:51:12  
So here is a update. I disconnected the coil wire and engine spun over with no issues as what Steve had previously posted may have been my problem. So as of now believe the timing is advanced too much so I need to retard it. In reading some of the post it is usually done by ear as to listening to the engine, any suggestions as how to retard the timing? In reading rh manual I beleive it states 6 degrees so should i set my timing light, or set the flywheel mark at 6 then turn the distributor to to #1? When I timed it I timed it at TDC.

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PhilH

08-13-2017 18:42:28




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 Re: Question in reply to PhilH, 08-12-2017 13:51:12  


I have 1/0 cable going to the stater switch as well as 1/0 cable to a bolt on the switch that holds it down for the ground. Should I change the gauge cable going from the switch to the starter to 1/0? I will check what you have stated to me and thank you.



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Steve@Advance

08-13-2017 19:16:47




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 Re: Question in reply to PhilH, 08-13-2017 18:42:28  
That cable is plenty for a 12v.

In fact, some decrease the cable size to tone down a 6v starter operating on 12v.



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PhilH

08-13-2017 04:45:10




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 Re: Question in reply to PhilH, 08-12-2017 13:51:12  
You need to check the alternator output with a volt meter. Should get about 14.6 volts with the engine revved up. If it's going higher, there is a problem with the regulator or wiring. This needs to be corrected ASAP, it will ruin the new battery, burn up the alternator, other problems.

Agreed, I was wondering regulator but what wiring issues would cause this so I can be on the look for?

There could be a problem with the starter. A 6v starter on 12v should spin like crazy! Try pulling the choke first, it should fire instantly if everything is right. If you suspect it is kicking back because of timing, try pulling the coil wire, see if it spins through better. If it does, back the timing off some. Those have a history of breaking starter nose cones from fast timing or hitting the starter when the engine has kicked backward



This is exactly what happens, the starter struggles to spin then when the choke is pulled fires right up. I will pull the coil wire and see, but does pulling the choke mean it can be a timing issue also?


I've never heard of a starter resistor, it would have to be a monster if it existed! You are probably thinking of an ignition resistor, which you do need if it still has the 6v coil.

As for changing the starter over, most people don't, just be careful not to crank too long as it will quickly overheat. But, if the opportunity to change it ever comes, as in it burns up, do it. One other problem with running a 6v starter is when it hits, it hits hard! If the tractor gets used and started a lot, it will eventually take out the flywheel gear, or knock it off the back of the flywheel, and there is the nose cone breakage issue. For now, if it's working, best leave it, might go a long time.[/quote][color=red:645fdd37b1][/color:645fdd37b1]

Thank you for the correction, yes ignition resistor, you just stated what I had to do these past few weeks and replace the flywheel gear as the teeth were chewed up pretty bad. The starter had been replaced, at least the bendix has. I do use the tractor weekly and try not to turn it off and on alot just keep it running when in use. any advice you can give on this.

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Steve@Advance

08-13-2017 15:19:28




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 Re: Question in reply to PhilH, 08-13-2017 04:45:10  
Agreed, I was wondering regulator but what wiring issues would cause this so I can be on the look for?

If after you check the voltage, and find it to be too high, we'll need to know what alternator it has. A picture of the back side of the alternator will be helpful, or a description with the brand and some numbers. There are just too many to start guessing.


This is exactly what happens, the starter struggles to spin then when the choke is pulled fires right up. I will pull the coil wire and see, but does pulling the choke mean it can be a timing issue also?

Pulling the choke could be an indication of a timing issue. When cranking on a cold engine without the choke, there is no fuel in the cylinders to ignite. Once the fuel gets there, if the timing is too fast, it will try to kick the engine backward.

A "dragging starter" is a term referring to a starter with bad bushings, which allows the armature to "drag" inside the field windings. This greatly reduces the starter's ability to turn the engine over. Typically the starter will quickly overheat, cables will get hot, engine will be hard to start because the starter steals all the voltage from the coil. Sometimes a damaged starter will also turn through slowly. Could be bad windings, arcing brushes. Or a weak connection, loose/corroded cables, bad ground, weak/arcing starter contacts can cause slow cranking.

But, fast timing has a unique sound to it. You can hear the engine trying to kick backward while it is cranking. Sometimes with a mechanical "klack" when the ignition occurs while the piston is still on it's way up on compression stroke. There will also be other problems, clattering under load, over heating, can burn the top of the pistons in extreme cases. So, if pulling the coil wire improves the cranking speed, it is set way fast, needs to be backed off before more damage occurs.

If pulling the coil wire does not change the cranking speed, and it still turns through slow, check the battery connections. If any are getting hot, that is a good indication of a high resistance connection. One common place to check is if the ground cable is still connected to the sheetmetal behind the battery, try moving the ground directly to the engine block. Another problem area is the starter contacts. They can be worn, corroded or out of adjustment. Any cable connections can be loose, or the cable defective inside the connection, again, feel for heat. A test you can run, pull the coil wire, have an assistant hold the starter in while checking the voltage between the starter connecting stud and the starter case. Should get around 9 volts. If low, check the connections back toward the battery until you find the drop.

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Steve@Advance

08-12-2017 19:34:50




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 Re: Question in reply to PhilH, 08-12-2017 13:51:12  
My first question is when i start the tractor my ammeter pegs a 30 pn the positive side, now it use do this then eventually drop to 0-5 amps now it does not just stays at 30 any ideas.

You need to check the alternator output with a volt meter. Should get about 14.6 volts with the engine revved up. If it's going higher, there is a problem with the regulator or wiring. This needs to be corrected ASAP, it will ruin the new battery, burn up the alternator, other problems.

Second is when I start the tractor the starter drags but if i hit the choke it starts right up, could this be a timing issue or starter issue?

There could be a problem with the starter. A 6v starter on 12v should spin like crazy! Try pulling the choke first, it should fire instantly if everything is right. If you suspect it is kicking back because of timing, try pulling the coil wire, see if it spins through better. If it does, back the timing off some. Those have a history of breaking starter nose cones from fast timing or hitting the starter when the engine has kicked backward.

Last is it worth the investment converting the starter to 12 Volt instead of using the resistor to convert. I run 1/0 cable positive and negative comments, thank you.

I've never heard of a starter resistor, it would have to be a monster if it existed! You are probably thinking of an ignition resistor, which you do need if it still has the 6v coil.

As for changing the starter over, most people don't, just be careful not to crank too long as it will quickly overheat. But, if the opportunity to change it ever comes, as in it burns up, do it. One other problem with running a 6v starter is when it hits, it hits hard! If the tractor gets used and started a lot, it will eventually take out the flywheel gear, or knock it off the back of the flywheel, and there is the nose cone breakage issue. For now, if it's working, best leave it, might go a long time.

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PhilH

08-12-2017 16:12:33




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 Re: Question in reply to PhilH, 08-12-2017 13:51:12  
Battery is new, also converted to alternator but still has amp gauge. Probably need to see what is my alternator charging.



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miner09

08-12-2017 15:16:40




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 Re: Question in reply to PhilH, 08-12-2017 13:51:12  
If battery's weak the generator may just be charging at 30 if it didn't do this before.Check battery.Starter may not be dragging if battery is weak.Try using jumper cable and see if it turns OK. The 6 volt starter will work OK with 12 volt as long as you don't keep starting at long periods. Most Ferguson don't turn over more than 3-4 turns and they will be running. Good engines.



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