TO-30 3pt won't descend

pomester

Member
so - the three point lift arms on my TO-30 are in the up position and won't descend - if you grab the arms and lift, they'll go up a bit and you can shake and the system is loose, release them and they hit a solid stop about at the top of the normal travel -

any suggestions on proceeding? - I got this tractor 3-4 years ago and the 3-point worked - I don't use the 3-point much/at all, I use this tractor to pull wagons and trailers - one day I went to use it and found it in this condition -

I appreciate any feed back -

thanks
David
 
(quoted from post at 00:42:16 04/09/16) so - the three point lift arms on my TO-30 are in the up position and won't descend - if you grab the arms and lift, they'll go up a bit and you can shake and the system is loose, release them and they hit a solid stop about at the top of the normal travel -

any suggestions on proceeding? - I got this tractor 3-4 years ago and the 3-point worked - I don't use the 3-point much/at all, I use this tractor to pull wagons and trailers - one day I went to use it and found it in this condition -

I appreciate any feed back -

thanks
David

The possibilities are endless but you can learn a little more by taking the inspection cover off the right side and - with the engine off - reach down in the oil and see if the control valve will move when you move the quadrant. If there is water in the oil (caramel color) the lift piston or the control valve may have "rusted" in place. If the control valve moves and the oil looks OK then perhaps the valves in the lift pump are blocked or bound. It may be as simple as the quadrant having moved so the linkage is no longer activated. On the mechanical side, the "dog bone" between the lift piston and the rock shaft may have jammed some way or another or the lift cylinder may have moved or split binding the piston. Good luck.
 
I've got the inspection covers off and I'm draining the oil - it's kinda caramel colored, but clear, not milky, I don't think moisture is an issue - quite heavy weight - I've never changed it in this tractor -

I've not been in one of these before and am having to familiarize myself with components -

right now I'm working on grilling supper - in 30* temperatures and 25mph NW winds - I'll head back to the shop later this evening, maybe - the stove is going and it's comfortable in an oily dirty sort of way -
 
With the oil out of it you probably won't be able to determine the cause.... You usually have to run it and look inside the cover to troubleshoot it.
But don't put your hands in there when running. Having said that, there might be something obviously disconnected, so look for that while you have it
dry. Don't remove the top cover without reading the manual and unhooking the yoke first. The right side access cover is the place to inspect it.
 
this isn't a pump problem, I'd judge -

with covers off I can see the connecting rod in place and about 1/2" of the piston protruding from the cylinder - I'd guess that the piston is seized in the cylinder - the control system seems to work - things move inside when the lever moves -

needed to take a break, now I'm inside with two women chattering so much I can't think and type - I'm going to pull one of the plugs on the side of the lift cover - that should release any pressure associated with the cylinder, if I read the diagram right -

I'd guess I'll be removing the top cover before this is over - the bushings for the rock shaft are so sloppy - it'll be difficult to find a place to stop on this one...
 
well - success of sorts - I removed the plug (actually a hydraulic coupler for something long gone) on the side of the lift cover, walked around and grabbed the lift arms and raised and slammed them down a few times and there was movement and a few more times and oil came out the plug and the arms descended -

I would guess it likely when I refill with oil the system will work -

I'm not going to worry about bushings and such for now - seldom use the 3 point anyway -

Is there a drain on the differential or does the plug on the bottom of the pump drain the differential too? - the swinging drawbar assembly pretty well covers up the bottom of the differential -

so decrepit it's beautiful....

 
You've got some kind of mechanical binding. Probably the piston is seized in the lift cylinder. Those won't
hold pressure when shut off, the arms should creep down in a matter of a few minutes.

Now that you have them down, if you can put an implement on with some weight to it, working them up and down
a few times might free things up.
 
Now that you have the arms descending like they should, hook them up to a 2 bottom plow or a 7 foot cultivator and go work the tractor for a few hours. That should take care of any sticking and keep them loose for years.

That looks like original paint on the hood (what's left of it) and it looks a lot like mine.
 
Any plug will drain the whole system but you might want to put the front wheels down (or the back end up) to get the oil to flow to the tranny plug. A complete refill should be about six gallons but you need to level the tractor and add the oil in stages to give it time to flow to the differential. It is easier to put on the left side plate with the PTO shifter before you put the right side plate on - you can see what you are doing with no oil in the way.

Sounds like you have dodged a bullet with the cylinder and working the system with weight on it every so often should keep it moving. As for the rock shaft bushings - I was able to change mine without taking the cover off because they protruded a little and there was enough room to snag them but it was frustrating for a while. Question to the forum: Can you pull the rock shaft out of the cover without taking the cover off? It looks to me like you could but you would need to support the internal parts through the access openings when reassembling.

Don
 
"That looks like original paint on the hood (what's left of it) and it looks a lot like mine."

yes - this is an unrestored original - as rough as it is, there is a certain beauty to the scars of 60 years on display -

the lift cover is a case in point - it needs bushings, there is no denying it - so I can get ahold of another cover off eBay or somewhere, clean, rebuild, swap - and then it's not original anymore - same with the engine - it starts and runs pretty well, but it loses a small amount of coolant to one of the combustion chambers - steam out the exhaust after it's set and not run for a while - I could get another engine, go thru it and swap it in, but then it's no longer original - etc, etc -

as soon as I start on this, there is no place to stop and I could buy a nice clean unit for much less than I can go thru this one -

dunno - right now I'm going to put a refurbished battery tray in this one and fresh oil in the power train and use it another year -
 
so - is there a plug hidden under the swinging drawbar assembly under the ring gear? -

one thing I'd like to work on is the drawbar assembly - it is missing two of the four bolts holding it to the rear end - broken off - I'd like to fix that as it is a safety/utility issue - it'll be hard to do working upside down tho -

DW and I are off to Capital City soon and a night on the town, so there's not going to be much progress in the next 24 hours -
 
well - things are near out of control - I pulled this onto the shop floor to deal with the air cleaner, which had fallen off last year because the bracket/battery box had corroded to that point -





I shopped on eBay last winter and came up with a tray of sorts - until I had them side by side I was uncertain whether I would refurbish the original or refurbish the new one -



sand blasted and reinforced on one corner...

 
so - since I got the 3-point freed up, I went ahead and drained all the oil - removed all the covers/pto so I could clean - some sludge in the case, but I've seen worse - the swinging drawbar had two broken bolts, so I removed it along with the 3-point hitch -



I spent several sessions blasting the broken bolts out of the case with a cutting torch - hard on the torch since molten metal would drop out of the hole onto the tip - so then I have to wait for it to cool and then clean - had to be careful not to damage the case - I think I may be able to salvage the threads, but had to order a tap set to work on the holes since I didn't have 5/8" tap set in inventory - also ordered a 11/16" set in case I have to go up in size -



the bearing associated with the PTO are junk - and the sleeve is grooved and pitted, so new parts and seal is in transit - there's a Ferguson 1 1/8" to 1 3/8" adapter that bolts to the case, the bearing in it was seized, and a bit scarce and pricey - but one is ordered -



the leveling box was seized and the knuckles cobbled - so here they are disassembled - I don't think I'll have to acquire any parts, but I still need to straighten the threaded shaft before reassembling -



hard to find a place to stop -



I'll start reassembling next session, but the weather's turned nice now and there's much to do outside - some parts may not make it this week -

 
I didn't even know there was a 1 1/8 to 1 3/8 adapter out there. I went ahead and put in a new 1 3/8...

The pictures take me back except that I didn't have a drawbar. While you are that "disassembled" you might want to check the condition of the fuel tank and see if it needs to be cleaned and sealed.
 
there are apparently two of them -



this is the 'swinging drawbar' type -



three pieces, plus snap rings - when bolted to the case the 1 3/8" shaft telescopes over the 1 1/8" shaft -




one nice thing about this tractor, it came with the swinging drawbar, the pto adapter, the three point drawbar, the pto belt pulley, and front wheel weights - from their condition it appears they spent their entire lives together -
 
"...condition of fuel tank..."

ya - it's a mess - the top has been sawn off and welded back at some point - there's plenty of scale, every so often I have to pull the settling bowl assembly and clear the hole -

I don't know how to clean a tank with baffles like this and if I could I don't know how to do a thorough job of coating -
 
There are a number of threads on the forum on gas tanks but the two issues are good cleaning and durable coating. There are kits available but I don't know much about them. The best cleaning suggestion I've seen is to take it to a radiator shop and have it tanked. I suppose you should remind them it is steel and not copper. For coating, it just needs to be fluid enough to flow when the tank is moved and rotated. Motorcycle shops usually sell a sealant that seems to work well and some of the tractor supply folks may also. I used marine epoxy with a slow hardener and thinned a little with acetone and haven't had a problem of blockage for a year now (fingers crossed). Of course, a new tank is a lot easier but you run the risk of having to adapt it to fit
 
I got the pressure washer out today - I hope that we are done freezing - I cleaned the drawbar - in case anyone is interested, here's a TO-30 swinging drawbar assembly - kinda interesting, remnants of red paint on the plate that bolts to the rear case, traces of gray paint on the 'harp' - no paint at all on the hitch -



 

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