starter?

ben harpo · Mar 19, 2016

My tractor suddenly failed crank the starter, I'm trying to diagnose the problem. I started it 3 times today and everything was fine, then the fourth time... dead. I hear a small click when I try to start it, but no cranking. I checked continuity of the wires and they are alright. I tried connecting jumper cables directly to the starter lug, nothing.

Do I need to replace the starter motor? This one is a 12V, I have a part for a 6V starter, is it OK to install that?

old · Mar 19, 2016

Is the battery at full charge?? Sounds like you could well have a battery that is low on charge so all you get is a click. I would charge the battery and see if it starts. If it does then you need to make sure the charging system is working.

RM-MN · Mar 19, 2016

Check your battery first to see if it is discharged. If so, charge it for several hours and see if it starts the tractor. If it does, check to see if your generator is working as well as the voltage regulator. It's possible that your battery was low to start with and with the draw for starting the tractor 3 times the generator just couldn't get the battery charged up enough to start it the fourth time, especially if you were running the engine slow and more so if the tractor needed extended cranking to get it to start.

ben harpo · Mar 19, 2016

I tried hooking jumper cables to the battery and to the starter lugs, that didn't work. Battery voltage was 12.15V.

Usually a dying battery gives a weak crank. I haven't seen that cause it to go from fine to nothing in a short time.

phil(va) · Mar 19, 2016

If you have run cables from a known good 12 volt battery to the starter top lug and with the other cable touched a good ground like on the side of the bell housing, and with the tractor OUT of GEAR you got nothing, then likely the starter has a problem. Is that what you did? Or was one cable on the battery and the other on the starter? Not clear on that.

Steve@Advance · Mar 19, 2016

If you are sure you were getting power to the starter lug, and the case is grounded (mount bolts tight), and still get nothing, there is a problem in the starter.

The symptoms you describe sound like either worn brushes, or a bad internal connection. Brushes are easy, a broken connection would depend on what and where the break is, but is probably repairable.

About the 6v starter, I believe the only difference is the field windings. A 6v starter will work on 12v, but can be hard on the flywheel and starter gear.

Bruce(OR) · Mar 20, 2016

Take apart the battery connections and clean them. Yeah, they all look clean. Do it anyway. Jumping from another vehicle. Don't care what your jumping to.
Hook up the cables to the donor vehicle and then just before you connect to the victim, touch them together for a split second to see if you get a good strong spark. Arc welding 101. You, uh, didn't do either one?
Start with the cleaning and go from there...

ben harpo · Mar 21, 2016

Thanks for the replies, I will try cleaning all connections and charging the battery first.

I wonder if someone could help explain what happens when the gear lever on a TO-30 is pushed to the S position. Does the lever move a starter gear, or does it just make an electrical contact?

Is the starter gear pushed against the flywheel by a solenoid? Would that explain the click I hear?

John Deere D · Mar 21, 2016

I always treat this problem as if there is a faulty battery lead connection:

I expect there shall be several comments as to what I'm about to suggest is NOT SAFE, fare enough:

With Tractor in Neutral/NOT IN GEAR and HIGH TENSION Lead from center of Ignition COIL to DISTRIBUTOR REMOVED:

With a fully charged battery and both cables (- + ) removed from battery:

Connect a set of booster/jumper cables from the Battery to the Starter as per below:

For a POITIVE ground system:

Connect the POSITIVE(red)jumper to the Battery (+ post) and the other end to the Head of the Cap screw that holds the starter in place to the Engine:

Attach the Negative (black) jumper to the battery (- post):

When you touch the Black Jumper to the HEAD of the BRASS/COPPER connection on the Starter (Item # 44) the Starter should start to MOTOR:

Pay attention to ITEM # 21/23 24 and the actuating ROD....they are possibly faulty.

Bob..

ben harpo · Mar 21, 2016

OK I got the tractor running, but I don't understand what is going on.

I cleaned all the connections and tried to start. This time I heard a hum in addition to a click. Then I tried attaching jumper cables directly to the starter and the frame, presto the tractor fired right up.

I ran it for less than a minute then I turned the tractor off, removed the jumper cables, and tried to start the regular way. Boom it fired right up. Battery voltage reads 12.45V. The dashboard ammeter says the generator is providing almost 10 amps.

The sticker on the battery says it was manufactured in 2013. Is it possible I just have a crappy battery that reads good voltage, but doesn't have the cold cranking amps?

ben harpo · Mar 21, 2016

Thanks Bob,

It might be items 21-24. I'll take that apart next. I'm getting the starter motor to turn by jumping directly to it. I'm getting inconsistent results with just the battery, the same when I have jumper cables directly to the battery.

Why do you say to disconnect the ignition coil from the distributor?

Bruce(OR) · Mar 21, 2016

12.45 volts. I figure your running a GM alternator, model 10-SI with your 12V battery. Your charging spec should be 13.2 to 14.8. Battery static voltage is 12.6 Your alt might be due for a bench test and thinking about it, how about a bad alternator ground? Yep. If it's mounted into a painted surface, it might not be getting the ground it needs. Fast check - get it running and connect a jumper cable to the batt neg and hold against the housing. Voltage change?
It is possible you have a flat spot in the starter, not allowing electrical flow when needed and a weak alternator. Get the alt checked first. When that is up to speed, the batt might get enuff juice to kick the starter

John Deere D · Mar 21, 2016

My thoughts were safety first:

When bypassing various components to verify the operation of the STARTER, there COULD be an unforeseen variable, such as VOLTAGE getting to the coil....end result, the engine may start and cause an Injury.

Bob...

ben harpo · Mar 21, 2016

Thanks everyone, I think the problem is solved now. All of you who said it is probably a corroded connection were right. I was not thorough enough my first go around. The second time around with a voltmeter I figured out what was going on. Turns out the grounding connection was bad where the it connects to the dashboard/steering column. I cleaned the iron there real good with a dremel sanding tool and fixed the problem.

I really appreciate Bob's post with the starter lever details. I had that apart and saw some obvious wear, but not too bad. I was trying to test that with a voltmeter when I realized there was a grounding problem.

The generator is making well over 13V when it's running.

Again I really appreciate all the help from all of you guys.

starter?

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