TE20 carb/revving/throttle problems

crippss · Feb 21, 2016

Hi. I have a '53 TE 20 that I'm working on. The engine was running terribly. Spluttering and backfiring when it felt like it. Compressions great and same wet and dry. I took the carb off and used a carb kit to clean it up and put it back together.
Now when I start it, it only starts with the choke on. When I go to release the choke it quits. Played around with the carb settings and now it will automatically adjust the intakes to stay active, however when doing so it revs up so extremely high, then calms down to the point of dying, and back up again. Over and over. Whilst doing this it sounds like someone's taking pot shots out the rear end, and exhaust blowing out the exhaust gaskets while backfiring.
I hope someone's can shed some light on this! I'm getting frustrated now haha. Thanks in advance!!!

Bruce(OR) · Feb 21, 2016

Governor is going fits along with being cross wired and poorly adjusted carb.
How about you attack the firing order first, then the basic carb settings and then
look at you governor?
Others must more intelligence should be chiming in shortly with the firing order,
direction of rotation and, maybe if your lucky, the governor settings.

Steve@Advance · Feb 21, 2016

Take a look at the points, maybe replace them and the condenser. Check the distributor shaft bushings for
wear. Look the distributor cap over for carbon tracks, moisture. Plug wires in good shape and firing order
correct?

The high revving and erratic throttle control could be a linkage assembly or adjustment problem. With the
engine off, and the throttle set for fast, the throttle plate should be held wide open by the governor
spring. You should be able to push the throttle closed against the idle stop screw by pushing against the
governor arm. The action should be smooth with no binding.

The revving, backfiring, and dying could also indicate a major vacuum leak.

YukonFarmer · Feb 21, 2016

mine doing similar thing however just cleaned points and rebuilt carb also put fresh gaskets in it. how to check to see if its the govoner

crippss · Feb 22, 2016

Theres an old chap up the road with the same year so I took his distributor/condenser off his and put it on mine but the same problem occurred.
The wiring is all in the correct order (1,2,4,3). The cables and plugs are brand new. Nothing in the cap is cracked or damaged. I ruled the distributor out as it wasn't a consistent back fire. It'll just happen sporadically.
How would I test for a vacuum leak? I did the wet/dry compression test and it was around 90-95 every time and the same for each cylinder.
How would I adjust the governor?
The throttle leaver is all in good order (from following diagrams it seems to be all together in the right places).
I put the idle set screw all the way in and when I adjust it out it doesn't seem to make a difference.
Thanks for the responses!

Charles in Aus. · Feb 22, 2016

It sounds very much like it is running lean , despite you having cleaned the carburettor I think you may still have a partially blocked gallery or jet . Try spraying carb. cleaner directly into it without the air cleaner connected , this may fix it , otherwise I would be tempted to look at the carb. again .
To test for a vacuum leak spray CRC or carb. cleaner around the suspect joints while running , if the engine speeds up then the spray is being sucked into it and burnt proving a leak .

audiobull · Feb 22, 2016

It could be the spring steel in the timing case. There is a long bit of metal which attaches to the throttle and also to the governor. The metal is made from spring steel so the pressure of the steel acts to smooth out the governor.

With mine the bit of metal broke which stopped the engine running smoothly and it was uncontrollable and revving when it wanted or with a slight touch of the lever. This was after replacing pretty much everything and servicing everything. I thought it might have been timing or the carb but after a complete new setup found it to be this tiny bit of metal.

Unfortunately this part cannot be replaced unless you cut a saw blade up and use the sprung steel metal to fabricate a new one. Or try and find a new timing case.

audiobull · Feb 22, 2016

crippss · Feb 22, 2016

Awesome. Thanks for responses. I'll definitely try the carb problem. I know it needs a good tuning and hopefully that'll help diagnose the vacuum problem. I have a full gasket kit and was hoping I wouldn't have to use it, but if the fronts coming off the rest of its coming apart. I'll try and get to that soon and post some pictures!
Thanks again!!! If you have any suggestions that would sweeten up the disassemble they would be much appreciated!

2tractors · Feb 22, 2016

1,2,4,3 incorrect 1342 is correct. Backfiring is probably trash in tank getting in carb. I'd get all that fixed before tackling the govenor issue.

crippss · Feb 22, 2016

Yes! You're correct. That is how I have it set up. I will double check though to make sure but I'm pretty certain that's how it's wired. That would help the backfiring but not the high revvin issue. The front looks pretty easy to take apart so I'll probably take a stab at it anyway.

Ed H.-OH · Feb 22, 2016

Hi, If you put a kit in the carb. you may have put the wrong one in, read the above post, good luck.......ED

crippss · Feb 22, 2016

Double checked the wiring, the combination is correct. The way I said it was right, just backwards haha but it is correct.
The engine was running rough still before the carb kit and I figured it may help, and it certainly didn't do a whole lot of good.
I'll have to play around with a few more things. Perhaps I did put something back in the carb wrong.
It is back firing out of the carb/intake gasket. Does this help diagnose anything specific?
Thanks

Jo Bird · Feb 22, 2016

Before you pull it apart you should check the timing. Firing out the intake or exhaust is a sign of a timing issue, or a burnt valve. That may explain the difference in the compression readings..

audiobull · Feb 22, 2016

I had flames out the carb while trying to play around with the timing.
It turned out that the float in carb was sticky and thus starving the fuel.

To be honest I had loads of different problems with mine which all contributed to what your experiencing but I went through them one by one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA25fJ9_Blw&feature=youtu.be

crippss · Feb 23, 2016

So I've tried a bunch of things. Wiring is all good. Set the carb settings to what I found from a manual. Sprayed carb cleaner into the carb whilst running and it ran well and not back firing a whole lot. However when it did backfire gas was blowing out the carb/intake gasket. I can run it with the throttle full and choke in but once I let the throttle off it does again.
Right now I've taken it all apart to check points etc. Clean the carb again and make sure all the linkages are in working order.
Anyone have any suggestions?

audiobull · Feb 23, 2016

Yes I have already suggested what to look at next if you have tried everything else :roll:

crippss · Feb 24, 2016

So I'm in the process of taking it apart. Next step is to take the front off and check the throttle parts. Figured I'd start from the ground up.
I have the top off and the pistons are a little charred but nothing major, however there's quite a lot of oil in the sections where the valves are. Is this normal?

audiobull · Feb 25, 2016

Wow thats going to extreme. You should not need to go to the pistons if it was running ok prior?

Out of interest did you do anything with the float in the carb? Do you remember if it was moving ok? If a little sticky they will give either too much fuel or not enough fuel in a short space of time. A little big of grit on the side of the float can cause problems.

You should have oil up in the valves as they need to be oiled too. I would not say there should be tons of oil but certainly enough from it being flicked up. Oil is pumped to the camshaft but I think the valves and rockers are either dripped or splash lubricated.

John(UK) · Feb 27, 2016

What may be confusing the problem, is that the engine Governor is not controlling properly. No matter what, the Engine should never race if the Governor is set reasonably correctly. There are other problems as well from how you describe it, but the problem is made worse because of the Engine Governor allowing it to run too fast. It will be difficult to set-up the Carb as long as the engine is not running properly, but if you can prevent the Throttle opening too wide, you will then be able to get a better idea of what is generally wrong with the engine when it is running in its proper speed range. If you can get that speed correct, then you can set-up the Engine Governor so it will control properly. The maximum engine speed, (no load) should be 2200 rpm. If you would like the information how to set up the Engine Governor and the Carburettor, email me and I will send it to you. John(UK) [email protected]

crippss · Feb 27, 2016

I think I may have found the culprit to the poor engine running. The valves in the first and fourth cylinder aren't seated properly due to crud so they're being taken out and cleaned one by one. The second thing is that a friend pointed out the sooty 'blow out' marks on the side of the gasket for cylinders two and three meaning compression could be escaping there and causing an issue.
I have checked the timing case and all is well. I'm awaiting the email from John about the gov/carb settings.
Meanwhile I'll try and give the carb another clean, and get the head all back together and reset for a test run later on today!

audiobull · Feb 27, 2016

Surely this would have been picked up when you said compression was good wet and dry?

Great news that this may have been sorted. As John has said though the gov needs to be set up right.
I am not sure if the valves would in anyway cause the problems with racing apart from an awful racket and you may have been able to settle it slightly with the timing. Either way it would need doing so good show.

I guess you have more then a few problems and slowly fixing them without intentionally sorting that specific problem.

crippss · Feb 27, 2016

After taking the valves out it was obvious why there was back firing. Both the intake and exhaust seats were destroyed. So much pitting. I got some valve grinding compound and proceeded to reseat the valves. Worked awesome. All seated nicely. Cleaned it all in petrol and put everything back together.
Found myself an entire TE20 service manual consisting of 408 pages of pure glory. As well as a 59 page shop manual. In the service manual it explains the governor adjustment settings so I'm working my way though that!

audiobull · Feb 29, 2016

Put mine back together yesterday with the new timing case bumper. It still raced slightly.

With a few tweeks it was all ok and then suddenly started to race again.

I have some new spares so I decided to change my fuel line as the old was a little beaten up to say the least and the fittings were not the best and problem solved.
Air was getting into the fuel so despite everything being timed and set correctly the air would make the engine go lean, rich, lean, rich. No wonder the governor would go crazy. :roll:

John(UK) · Mar 1, 2016

You should have received the email with the information by now.
If you have blow marks like you say, remove manifold and make sure that it is clean and flat where it sits on the gasket John(UK)

TE20 carb/revving/throttle problems

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