TED20 -52 valve adjustment

jacka

Member
-52 TED20 Ferguson. Which are intake valve and exhaust valve adjustment? Are these 0.10 intake and 0.12 exhaust (adjust cold engine)?
 
Inlet Valves TIP Clearance/Rocker .010 ...Cold
Exhaust Valves TIP Clearance/Rocker .012...Cold
a206167.jpg

a206168.jpg
 

Thanks. I have used the engine warmed up several times and adjust valves two times. Still engine "tap" a litttle bit. Is it possible to adjust valves "gap" a little bit smaller? Like inlet .008 (20mm) and exhaust .010 (25mm) cold?
 
Before you change the VALVE CLEARANCE you should make sure the ROCKER ASSEMBLY and VALVES are being OILED.
I ran my Tractor with no VALVE ROCKER COVER and a TEMPORARY FUEL TANK to verify OIL is being supplied to the ROCKER ASSENBLY.
Bob...
 

Thanks. Rocker assembly is oiled, I checked that. But engine has been running for only a total of one hour, is it too little time?
 
If you ask 1000 TEA-20 Owners, you would received 1000 different suggestions. When I totally rebuilt my TEA-20, I ran it for 8 hours on a 2 BOTTOM FERGUSON plough, then checked the VALVE CLEARANCES, and re-torqued the head at the same time.
Only my personal thoughts....not necessarily SIR HARRY FERGUSONS.
 

Originalspecified gap for exhaust valves was 10 thousandths of an inch . This lead to valves burning under heavy load . The factory then issued a bulletin advising that the exhaust clearance should be increased to 12 thousandths of an inch .
I would not risk burnt valves in a newly restored engine by reducing the clearances . Is your oil very thin ? Perhaps a slightly heavier grade may quieten it a little .
 
Thanks, both of...

Maybe I use tractor and check valve clearences later. I use universal farm oil 10W30. Is that too slight?
 

20W50 is as heavy as you would want to use , the tapping may be due to a weak or broken valve spring or a slightly bent push rod .
 
(quoted from post at 12:24:00 11/26/15)
20W50 is as heavy as you would want to use , the tapping may be due to a weak or broken valve spring or a slightly bent push rod .

Ok. Could you tell me want is ok to use? And is that mineral or part-synthetic oil?
 
I use 15-40 DIESEL rated oil (not synthetic)in the ENGINES of my TEA-20, Case 830,Case 610B,MF 35 X,JD "AR", JD "520",Belarus 400,JD "D"
Bob...
 

20W50 is fine to use , 15W40 is closer to the original grade . Much depends on the temperatures it will work in and the amount of wear in the engine . Finland is much colder than Australia so a lighter oil might be advisable if working in the cold . I use 20W50 because our summer temperature regularly reaches 40`C plus.

Look at the faces of the tappet arms ; where they contact the valve stems , often they have a groove in them from previous bad adjustment . This can cause excessive noise as well .
 
(quoted from post at 01:01:13 11/27/15)
20W50 is fine to use , 15W40 is closer to the original grade . Much depends on the temperatures it will work in and the amount of wear in the engine . Finland is much colder than Australia so a lighter oil might be advisable if working in the cold . I use 20W50 because our summer temperature regularly reaches 40`C plus.

Look at the faces of the tappet arms ; where they contact the valve stems , often they have a groove in them from previous bad adjustment . This can cause excessive noise as well .

Thanks. Is it best way to use dial indicator when adjusting?
 

There is no need for such precision , a normal feeler gauge is more than adequate for adjustment . Check to see that the nuts on the rocker pedestal studs are tight while you are there .
 

I do everythink just like that. I still think (maybe noise is only in my mind), that is small noise "tag" normal? Engine works fine. Whether anyone have video or audio (hyperlink?) where I could listen to the engine how it properly running?
 
I TYPED in he below headings in the internet, and found several TEA-20 running.
videos tea20 you tube
tea20 you tube
 
Have you tried a Stethoscope? (with Engine running)
Often, if there is a foreign noise, and the location of noise is obscured, a Stethoscope or a Long bladed screwdriver, placed against a pair of EAR muffs/hearing protectors, can assist you in pinpointing the location of concern.
 
(quoted from post at 20:09:51 11/30/15) Have you tried a Stethoscope? (with Engine running)
Often, if there is a foreign noise, and the location of noise is obscured, a Stethoscope or a Long bladed screwdriver, placed against a pair of EAR muffs/hearing protectors, can assist you in pinpointing the location of concern.

Yes, I tried to stethoscope also. I don't found nothing big noise...
Look this Youtube video... I have same noise like that video (look after 3.00 minutes). I have all spark plug leafs installed that time... What is wrong, is that noise normal sound? I also trying to adjust valves 020mm inlet and 025mm exhaust, same noise...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCjworKPXDA
 

???

http://tractorpoint.com/forum/massey-ferguson-tractor-review/182101/1/massey-ferguson-te-20-tractor-Engine-Noise-after-rebuild.html
 
Here is low quality video of my Ferguson. Hope so someone could tell me where that knocking is come from? I take spark plug lead off (one by one), but there is still same noise.

http://vid38.photobucket.com/albums/e117/Buikki/Ferguson%20TED20%20videot/Ferguson%20TED20-video_zpslriisjzi.mp4
 
As mentioned above, post war British engineering was concerned with operation, not 'estetics' I still can't spell. it is nearly 60 years old, but you did not do a complete rebuild did you?
It starts, runs, accomplishes what you ask it to do? Until the noise starts sounding dangerous, I dunno... Did you listen to other Standard petrol engines? Again, not recently rebuilt ones, but ones just like yours?
I rebuilt mine last year, and still has so many noises from so many directions, and with a vertical exhaust pipe, I need to wear ear plugs. I have Continentals that are quieter than most cars of that age. Just the way it goes.

And remember, as USAAF Lt. Murphy said in his law #4, 'the best way to break something is to fix something that ain't broke'.....
 
(quoted from post at 20:26:58 12/02/15) As mentioned above, post war British engineering was concerned with operation, not 'estetics' I still can't spell. it is nearly 60 years old, but you did not do a complete rebuild did you?
It starts, runs, accomplishes what you ask it to do? Until the noise starts sounding dangerous, I dunno... Did you listen to other Standard petrol engines? Again, not recently rebuilt ones, but ones just like yours?
I rebuilt mine last year, and still has so many noises from so many directions, and with a vertical exhaust pipe, I need to wear ear plugs. I have Continentals that are quieter than most cars of that age. Just the way it goes.

And remember, as USAAF Lt. Murphy said in his law #4, 'the best way to break something is to fix something that ain't broke'.....

I rebuild that motor 15 years ago (new bearings, piston rings...) Yes,engine do what I want. I have not heard any other petrol engines...

Mayby now I found fault location (knocking noise). I ran the engine without valve head cover. I'm listening rocker arm shaft "feets".Three else's feet noise is normal, but cylinder number one "feet" noise is knocking. "Feet" is middle of valves. What I do next?
 
What you do NOT do - is adjust the valves so tight they burn, rather than tick.
What you can do, is get on you -tube, and listen to other people's TEA Standard petrol engines, you decide how yours compares. Yours is probably dead quiet compare to some that owners are so proud of.
I have a Z129 that is quiet except for a loud pounding from the distributor weighs, I perhaps cleaned and oiled it too much??? And that is under#1.
As I mentioned, my TEA was rebuilt, and it is so loud at the exhaust, I can't hear much else, so you need ear plugs anyway.
 
I took rocker arms away. Rocker arms looks like this? Could these make that knocking noise? Do I have to "grinding"?



 
Your second picture..........with your finger tell us how deep the indent is in the rocker tip.....your best guess! .005/.010/.020/.030 deep?
 
(quoted from post at 18:20:03 12/04/15) Your second picture..........with your finger tell us how deep the indent is in the rocker tip.....your best guess! .005/.010/.020/.030 deep?

I think deep is .010-.015. Knocking problem? Grinding?
 
(quoted from post at 19:46:12 12/04/15)
(quoted from post at 18:20:03 12/04/15) Your second picture..........with your finger tell us how deep the indent is in the rocker tip.....your best guess! .005/.010/.020/.030 deep?

I think deep is .010-.015. Knocking problem? Grinding?

You ain't going to like what I say but I suggest you take the head and rocker arms to a machine shop and have the valve guides and stuff checked and have the rocker arm pads ground and recontoured. The reason I say that is the pad on the rocker arm slides across the tip of the valve as it opens and closes it. With indentations like yours on the rocker arms, chances are it is pushing the valve its self back and forth since the rocker arm can no longer slide across the tip. Plus you can't set the valve clearances with the indentations like that.
 
+1 to Jason's comment. In addition, if your rocker arm tips are worn, the rocker arm bushings and shaft could be worn as well, which could also be contributing to your noise.

How do the rocker arms feel on the shaft? Can you get one of the end plugs off and inspect the shaft and a rocker arm bushing?

My TO-20 rocker arm shaft, bushings, and rocker arm tips were all worn, and sounded pretty "clattery". I shipped the assembly off to an outfit in California and had it rebuilt.

I'm not familiar with the Standard engine, but in Bob's diagram, it looks like the rocker arm tip rides directly on the valve stem, without any lash caps - is that right?
 
After listening to your short film I wonder if it is actually valve noise . Try using the stethoscope on the timing chain cover .[b:c2b20e3e81] ( Be careful of the fan )[/b:c2b20e3e81].
Have the governor weights been changed ? New ones can be loose or break suddenly , old ones eventually fail . Both situations can cause the clatter your tractor has .
 
If you have a .010>.015 divot/wear on the rocker tip, and you place a .010 feeler gauge between the rocker and the valve stem you now have .020>.030 Valve clearance.
 
(quoted from post at 22:00:35 12/04/15)
(quoted from post at 19:46:12 12/04/15)
(quoted from post at 18:20:03 12/04/15) Your second picture..........with your finger tell us how deep the indent is in the rocker tip.....your best guess! .005/.010/.020/.030 deep?

I think deep is .010-.015. Knocking problem? Grinding?

You ain't going to like what I say but I suggest you take the head and rocker arms to a machine shop and have the valve guides and stuff checked and have the rocker arm pads ground and recontoured. The reason I say that is the pad on the rocker arm slides across the tip of the valve as it opens and closes it. With indentations like yours on the rocker arms, chances are it is pushing the valve its self back and forth since the rocker arm can no longer slide across the tip. Plus you can't set the valve clearances with the indentations like that.

Machice shop grinding rocker arms. Then I put valve clearance inlet 025 and exhaust 030. When engine was warm then knocking start (not cold engine). Now I put inlet 020 and exhaust 025. Now warm engine didn't knocking... Are these valve clearances ok?
 
(quoted from post at 08:06:43 12/09/15)
(quoted from post at 22:00:35 12/04/15)
(quoted from post at 19:46:12 12/04/15)
(quoted from post at 18:20:03 12/04/15) Your second picture..........with your finger tell us how deep the indent is in the rocker tip.....your best guess! .005/.010/.020/.030 deep?

I think deep is .010-.015. Knocking problem? Grinding?

You ain't going to like what I say but I suggest you take the head and rocker arms to a machine shop and have the valve guides and stuff checked and have the rocker arm pads ground and recontoured. The reason I say that is the pad on the rocker arm slides across the tip of the valve as it opens and closes it. With indentations like yours on the rocker arms, chances are it is pushing the valve its self back and forth since the rocker arm can no longer slide across the tip. Plus you can't set the valve clearances with the indentations like that.

Machice shop grinding rocker arms. Then I put valve clearance inlet 025 and exhaust 030. When engine was warm then knocking start (not cold engine). Now I put inlet 020 and exhaust 025. Now warm engine didn't knocking... Are these valve clearances ok?

Not according to what John Deere D posted...they should be .010 intake and .012 exhaust.
 
(quoted from post at 17:30:17 12/09/15)
(quoted from post at 08:06:43 12/09/15)
(quoted from post at 22:00:35 12/04/15)
(quoted from post at 19:46:12 12/04/15)
(quoted from post at 18:20:03 12/04/15) Your second picture..........with your finger tell us how deep the indent is in the rocker tip.....your best guess! .005/.010/.020/.030 deep?

I think deep is .010-.015. Knocking problem? Grinding?

You ain't going to like what I say but I suggest you take the head and rocker arms to a machine shop and have the valve guides and stuff checked and have the rocker arm pads ground and recontoured. The reason I say that is the pad on the rocker arm slides across the tip of the valve as it opens and closes it. With indentations like yours on the rocker arms, chances are it is pushing the valve its self back and forth since the rocker arm can no longer slide across the tip. Plus you can't set the valve clearances with the indentations like that.

Machice shop grinding rocker arms. Then I put valve clearance inlet 025 and exhaust 030. When engine was warm then knocking start (not cold engine). Now I put inlet 020 and exhaust 025. Now warm engine didn't knocking... Are these valve clearances ok?

Not according to what John Deere D posted...they should be .010 intake and .012 exhaust.

Sorry. I mean always millimeters (not inches)...
 
OK, let's get some units of measurement and decimal points involved here (Google has a handy little tool for this): Jacka, you report that you currently have your intake/exhaust set at 0.20/0.25mm (cold), which converts to 0.00787/0.0098 inches.

Bob's specs called for 0.010/0.012 inches, so you're about .0022 inches too tight on your clearance.

I'll let others comment on whether you're close enough or not. Your engine may not be "knocking", but your valves may not be closing all the way, either.
 
Is it possible to brink out valve pushrod cups/tappets (which are between pushrod and cam shaft) without to take off cylinder head?

How? Magnetic?
 

I use only 98 octane petrol (not vaporising oil). Now I have ignition static timing. Is it possible that knocking disappear if I put timing little bit later?
 
YOUR DECIMAL POINT is NOT in the proper position if talking THOUSANDS of an INCH:

Settings are:

specs called for 0.010/0.012 inches:

NOT one HUNDRED thousand as you posted:

.010= TEN THOUSAND of an INCH:

.100= ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND of an INCH:
 

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