12 V lucus starter testing

pcp20us

Member
Hi Chaps.

Pete again, Righto sorting out the problem with my gear stick starter. Pulled it apart and cleaned it all up. It s all working on a multi meter. starter was no turning and you could hear it trying to turn and smoke was starting to appear at the switch on bell housing when engaging the starter on the gear stick. so lloks like the starter has gone bad.

So removed starter and connected to a battery for testing. It was pulling the battery down to 2 to 3 volts on the battery. And would cut out after 3 sec or so.

Can you services theses guys or any hints what to look for.

Cheers
 
First circumstance sounds like a poor earth , smoke and getting hot , either that or the stick activated switch is not contacting properly .
Second circumstance [u:aff860a1e7]may[/u:aff860a1e7] be a dead short . I have seen this happen a few times now . The starter is pulled apart and then reassembled , the braided wires that are embedded in the brushes stick out a bit especially if the brushes have been re dressed . They short against the outer case and cause all sorts of smoke to leak out .
Try dismantling again , dress the face of the brushes if you haven't already , replace them and make sure they slide easily . Don't undercut the insulation in the commutator , that is for generators only . Re assemble and see how you go . Make sure to brace the starter when testing , they bite worse than a Tassie Devil !
 
Righto, did some more testing with starter apart.

All brushes are connected, which seems wrong

The 2 brushes on the housing( yoke) that connected to the positive terminal for battery cable, but this is also connected to the chassis of the starter. So basically there is a dead short between everything??

I am confused, but I would think the terminal should not be connected to the body of the start which is basically earth, but the 4 screws holding the metal plates in would be earthing out as well?? must be time for a drink...
 
Ok been working on the stater, doing all the tests as per google ville.

When testing the commutator, all adjoinging segments are 0 resistance. But all segments seem to be 0 resistance, I think it
should be open circuit between all segments bar adjoining segments?

So i think the mica needs cutting back to fix this problem?

Can you DIY cut the mica on the commutator, as it looks like fiddly work..


cheers
 
I just rebuilt the Lucas starter this week for my 1962 Ford Consul Capri. My former employer, Dave Bean Engineering sells parts. My main problem was that the aluminum field coils had been poorly soldered to the replaced brush wires, and there was no electical connection under a load. What a pain! It takes a special solder and flux,and a lot of cleaning to get it to stick.
got tires today it runs, and as soon as I rebuild the clutch hydraulics it gets driven and goes on Ebay.

2014-10-18_13-50-08_384_zps7e4786af.jpg
 
update on the starter.

Worked out that the fied coils where shorting , has this verified by an auto elect. So after a new/2nd hand one.

Aanyone got advice on the ones you can buy on the net for $130 AUD i assume there bare co ones, are they crap or half decent.

There are plenty on ebay 2nd hand, which are probably better quality.

Which varities on lucas starters will fit. Mine is a M35G interia starter.


cheers
 
I have bought generators from this company and they are very good . Fast postage and a very good price .They also sell starters , probably the same as all the others but the fellow that runs the show is really helpful if there is any trouble .

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/STARTER-MOTOR-TO-SUIT-MASSEY-FERGUSON-TE20-TEA20-TED20-12V-GREY-FERGIE-/131485607471?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item1e9d27262f
 
Ok,,, Starter motor 50 odd years old, repaired and now working, Love being able to fix something this old... beats buying a new one.

Wish these guys had a How to section on this forum.

Anyway here is the repair.

Ok short in the field coild, removed coils, removed wrapping, and rewarapped the feild coils, put it back together and it does what it should, at least on the bench.

Photos for other people wanting to do this, if they can ever find this.

Auto electric to repair about $250, a new stater $150.

Repair, a few delicate hours rewrapping with new tape, ( free)
coating $12, and a sense of achievement, hope its good for another 50 years

photo of field coil with tape removed

mvphoto20724.jpg


Pix of coils rewrapped, tape is for temp holding in postion.

mvphoto20725.jpg


Coil coated in polyuatherne(speeling) and drying
mvphoto20726.jpg


coil back in the casing

mvphoto20727.jpg
:D
 
Bl@@dy beauty ! Bonza job and detailed enough photos to let others do the same . Well done PCP , was the old tape the culprit ? worn and shorting to the casing ?
 
(quoted from post at 22:33:11 05/11/15) Bl@@dy beauty ! Bonza job and detailed enough photos to let others do the same . Well done PCP , was the old tape the culprit ? worn and shorting to the casing ?

Sure was just in one spot... It was pretty perished, as i started peeling it off... I would think having another insulation on the inside of the housing between the coils would be a no brainer.
 
Nicely done. Copper is much easier that aluminum to work with.The last time I had to rewind a field coil was on an old winch, and there was burned paper insulation between the windings. I cut strips from a manila folder and wrapped them with cloth friction tape. Still works. I am one of the few people I know who has an armature growler and can use it.
Were your winding laquered for internal insulation?
 
(quoted from post at 04:29:46 05/12/15)
Were your winding laquered for internal insulation?

Growler, you gotta love that word..

No the copper wasn't laquared.

It was nice and chunky copper so it was easy to work with.... Putting it back on the fergie today, so that'll be the moment of thruth
 
Installed the starter today. It worked for a while. Then nothing just the odd click..
Bl&%dy hell. So I reverted to the crank handle. That gives you a good work out :D .

Not much else to replace in the starter.. Need to test and check brushes again, but ran out of day light. I hope it ain't the field coil again
 
im telling you man....get that battery checked or try a different one. Just because a battery will test at 12volts doesn't mean it's good. If the voltage drops off that fast, the battery is no good.
 
(quoted from post at 03:52:57 05/14/15) im telling you man....get that battery checked or try a different one. Just because a battery will test at 12volts doesn't mean it's good. If the voltage drops off that fast, the battery is no good.

This is true, it has to be load tested to see where the voltage goes when under a heavy amp load. Cheap chinese load testers works just as well as my vintage American made unit.
In my experience field coil windings are insulated from each other, usually by a varnish like "Gylptal" or paper between them. I dont see signs of either in the photos.
 

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