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te20 lucas m418g VI139 starter problem

D

Daynte20

Member
my 1948 ferguson te 20 just started having some issues with the starter. one day when i was going out to plow this winter i turned the key and the starter just spun freely without engaging the flywheel. i turned the key again..same thing. did that a few more times then it engaged and started right up. now it starts fine sometimes and others the same problem happens. i called a starter rebuild shop and they said i couldn't get parts for this starter any more. anybody else have this happen? the tractor is converted to 12 volt and i have a new fully charged battery. any suggestions on fixing this lucas m418g VI139 starter are appreciated. thanks.
Dayn.
 
You might contact these people if nothing better shows up.

http://www.forge-services.co.uk/acatalog/M418.html
 
You might try cleaning the starter drive, take the
starter off and clean any rust or dried grease off
the threaded end of the shaft and the drive gear
then lube it with a little light oil so that the
gear will move out to contact the ring gear when
the starter starts to spin.
 
Thanks for the link. It looks like they may carry the parts for this starter. Now I just need to figure out what part isn't working so I can order replacements.
Dayn.
 
Try cleaning the starter drive like K.S.
suggested. Wash it out with spray carb cleaner,
lacquer thinner, something that will leave it dry
inside.

Starter drives, especially the sprag clutch type,
don't like oil. If the rear main seal is leaking
and slinging oil into the starter, this may be
something you have to do periodically.

If cleaning doesn't fix it, replace the starter
drive.
 
Search this site in Classic View and received over 500 hits on Lucas Starter.
Helps if you know if you have Continental Z120 or
Standard Motors engine.
My guess is your starter drive is your problem.
 
Is it possible the ring has been knocked back where the starter can't reach the ring gear all the time if such a thing is possible?
 
Thanks for all the suggestions guys. When I get home from work I will try cleaning it. Do I have to take the starter apart or are you just talking about the shaft the drive slides on. I've never had to work on the starter before so it's new to me.
Dayn.
 
I did read on another forum that on some early models the ring could move back a bit and cause the starter to not engage it. I'm not sure if this happens on a 48 te 20 or not. But I would think if this was the case the starter would never engage, but it does sometimes. The starter drive gear has some wear in it from where it contacts the ring. I'm sure this is prob normal after all the years of starting.
Dayn.
 
Well I followed the suggestions and took the starter apart and cleaned the drive with carb and choke cleaner and gave it a light lube. It really wasn't that dirty but had a slight buildup of some old grease or oil.. Very slight though. I got that off. It seems like it slides better now than it did before, but when returns back it seems weak. After installing it onto the tractor the first time I tried starting it it just spun again.. But every time after that it engaged and started the tractor every time! The drive must be the problem. It seems to be working now but I still am going to order a new drive. On this link http://www.forge-services.co.uk/acatalog/M418.html#a2686 Is the part #FS2686 Drive & Pinion (Gear and Worm) - TLB102 the correct part that I should replace? Thanks again.
Dayn.[/url]
 
I doubt if #FS2686 is correct for your application.
Read this in modern view.

http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=578317

and this

http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=247368

25519E is part # of starter
V139 is Type # of starter
M418G is model # of starter

fix that ferguson site shows starter drives.
Good luck!
 
(quoted from post at 06:14:34 03/22/15) I doubt if #FS2686 is correct for your application.
Read this in modern view.

http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=578317

and this

http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=247368

25519E is part # of starter
V139 is Type # of starter
M418G is model # of starter

fix that ferguson site shows starter drives.
Good luck!
Click to expand...

thanks for the help i really appreciate it. i looked at the fix that feruson website and think this may be what i need.. does this look right. the only thing i see different is my starter says m418g v139. and this says it fits vi39m m418. mine doesnt have the m after v139 and mine has a g at the end of starter model #
http://www.fixthatferguson.com/inde...ct_info&cPath=2_14_52&products_id=244
Starter Drive, Barrel Only
$93.22
Starter Drive, Barrel Only. 9 teeth. For Lucas starter stamped: V139m M418, 25519.
OEM #: 25519.
Application: Ferguson TE20, TEA20.
 
My guess it is what you need.My Lucas catalog that does not list tractors but has a starter very close to yours has what they call
Pinion and Sleeve or barrel. I don't know if you get the innards for the barrel,
I would make sure they have one in stock before sending money.
Good Luck.
 
Thanks. I will give them a call before I order it and see what all it comes with and that its in stock.
Dayn.
 
One thing to check while you have the starter out . Disconnect the coil to ensure the engine doesn't start and slowly rotate the flywheel while peering in at the starter ring with a torch . Look for stripped teeth on the flywheel , the starter seems to engage the same few teeth when it engages every time , these become fatigued and can fail . These missing teeth will give you the free spinning symptom you have . A quick fix is to remove the starter ring and rotate it a half turn before re installing.
 
(quoted from post at 19:00:57 03/22/15) One thing to check while you have the starter out . Disconnect the coil to ensure the engine doesn't start and slowly rotate the flywheel while peering in at the starter ring with a torch . Look for stripped teeth on the flywheel , the starter seems to engage the same few teeth when it engages every time , these become fatigued and can fail . These missing teeth will give you the free spinning symptom you have . A quick fix is to remove the starter ring and rotate it a half turn before re installing.
Click to expand...
thanks for this advice. i will pull the starter again and check the teeth on the flywheel for damage,wear. maybe i will try starting it until it just spins again and then take if off so its in the possible bad spot. im assuming the tractor must be split to repair the starter ring?
Dayn
 
Yes :( but then it will be a good time to renew the clutch ,thrust bearing and rear engine seal and check the gear box input seal while you are there.
 
i pulled the starter today to take another look at the starter ring. i tried starting the tractor before i pulled the starter and it just spun. there are no missing teeth on the starter ring and they all look like there warn evenly.here are some pics. i measured the distance from the starter ring to the starter mounting face and it was @ 1.22 in all the way around so i don't think it has moved back correct me if im wrong. i still think its the starter drive that is the problem. im going to call the people at fixthatfurgoson tomorrow and see if they have what i need in stock.
Dayn.
3-29-15%20217.jpg
[/URL][/img]
3-29-15%20218.jpg
[/URL][/img]
3-29-15%20215.jpg
[/URL][/img]
 
well fixthatferguson got back to me and the starter drive i need is not in stock and not sure when it will be. cant seem to find it anywhere else. if anybody knows anywhere else to get one it is greatly appreciated. until then i think i will take it apart and clean and lube it again and see if there is anything else i can do o it. don't really want to buy a whole new starter.
Dayn.
 
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