z120 pining

my to20 shows some trace of coolant in the oil, for what it is its not bad, changing the oil every spring for what I use it its fine, thou I wonder if I could do better,

now looking into solutions I learned about the webs cracking in between the sleeves, and a common repair called Pinning, as I looked over mine, guess what it already has it done.

so I wonder either the cracks got worse, doubt it, I don't get enough of a leak to justify a large crack, or maybe the rods stretched a bit over time, for all I know the repair was done before I was born,

previous owner had some engine block sealer in the coolant, I added some too, used it before on other engines with much success, thing is the engine needs to be run regularly for that stuff to work, I used it on a semi truck and it worked well but that truck ran at full capacity 10 hrs a day, what I noticed from that experience it would leak more coolant in the oil bath when we parked it for a week rather when it ran all week.

so I wonder, by now I may have a light film of the copper stuff in the crack, maybe I should try and tighten those pins a bit see what it does, I saw a picture of a pinned block once and the rod looked very rusty, the kind I would be afraid to snap it trying to take it out or tighten it.

I am currently planning some other work on this tractor and this would be one item to address while I am at it,

question is what is a good approach?
it will need an oil change come spring I was debating pulling the oil pan, may never have been done and it could likely use a cleaning anyhow, inspect the cracks, and see about tightening those rods, maybe if I felt frisky try and replace them, but either way messing with them I risk snapping one and making this a bigger job than I bargained for.

on the other hand if I pull this off it would be well worth it, I am impressed with this machine still kicking after all these years, it still needs some help but for the most part its simple stuff, and I have worked it as is and got a lot done, I feel I owe it a little love see if I can make it better.

any suggestions, should I mess with the pins or leave them alone for fear of snapping the rods

George try this. It worked for me one time, I had a head gasket leaking and used this stuff and the car went over 20,000 miles before I got rid of it and it still ran good.

Bob
KSEAL

(quoted from post at 14:04:30 12/29/14) George try this. It worked for me one time, I had a head gasket leaking and used this stuff and the car went over 20,000 miles before I got rid of it and it still ran good.

Bob
KSEAL

Click to expand...

I have used something similar in the semi engine I mentioned with good results, looks like the previous owner put something in the coolant also, I added my favorite juice as well, and it is working, just wondering if there is something more I can do especially since the engine block has been pinned allready, maybe I should try and tighten the rods a bit but I am dreading that I may snap one of them.

those solutions work good if a sleeve seal is leaking, sometimes on a head gasket also depending of how bad the damage, these z120 blocks have a different issue, they are known to crack between the sleeves, the pining I mentioned is a common repair used to be recommended as a factory fix,

a sleeve ring or head gasket can also be replaced, wish it was that simple, I am pretty confident my block is cracked since it has the threaded rods/ pins installed, they may have been there for ages for all I know, I just wonder if there is more than the sealer solutions I could do for this engine short of a rebuild, welding or brazing or replacing the block

Once upon a time I used KN Block seal. Cardboard in
front of the radiator, non contact temp gun to make
sure it gets to temp, drain it off for two days
before refilling. Those are the highlights. Be sure
to read the directions.

As I read this it sounds more like you have the tension rod fix instead of pinning. Do you have pieces of all thread thru the block between the sleeves?

(quoted from post at 19:19:46 12/29/14) As I read this it sounds more like you have the tension rod fix instead of pinning. Do you have pieces of all thread thru the block between the sleeves?

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yes it does appear there are tension rods through the block, I thought that is what was referred to as pinning, guess I am confused on the terminology, I'll see about taking some pics next time I am out there

if I remember correctly the rods are all the way through the block, on one side there is a nut, the other looks threaded into the block, and I believe there was a flathead slot in it, I am tempted to put a half turn on those nuts, maybe I'll wait till the coldest day hopefully the block shrank a bit,

I cant remember if it was just the bottom end or both at the top also, I read about the rods when I first got it and was debating doing that, when I had a look at the tractor guess what? it has been done already.

somebody here posted a picture of a disassembled block with this repair, and it looked awful rusty inside, not sure if that wasn't just because the block has been sitting around exposed, but that one I would be leery tensioning it, I am thinking this repair may have been done before I was born and it held a while but over time it got loose and may need a snug, it would help anyways if it works, if those rods are all rusty, I may snap one if that is not what actually happened already.

the issue is not severe, I could just change the oil this spring and go to town and beat on it some more, guess I am a bit compulsive, if there is something I could do better and it isn't that big of a job I am all for it, thou I am not in the mood to rebuild that engine right now, got other things on my list.

I cant seem to leave good enough alone and it wouldn't be the first time I open up a can of worms, truth is at some point I would probably rebuild it or try to rig up a modern engine I got a couple candidates, just not right now got some work I need done next spring/summer with this tractor,

Truthfully the only way to fix your block is to have it furnace brazed or have it pinned. I have a Z120 block here that had the tension rod fix and it split all the way down to the main bearings. So it doesn't really help that much. Here is a place that does pinning.
http://www.locknstitch.com/fix_cracked_engine_block.htm

(quoted from post at 18:49:20 12/30/14)
Truthfully the only way to fix your block is to have it furnace brazed or have it pinned. I have a Z120 block here that had the tension rod fix and it split all the way down to the main bearings. So it doesn't really help that much. Here is a place that does pinning.
http://www.locknstitch.com/fix_cracked_engine_block.htm

Click to expand...

oh so that is what pinning is. guess I had them confused, I have seen a video on that at some point.

honestly I'm not entirely sure which route to take, I kind of like the tractor thou I am not emotionally attached to it, it is still in working condition its just not like me to beat on my equipment I usually try to do the best I can with it.

the whole idea of a gas motor on a tractor is odd to me, I have some small diesel engines, off refrigerated trailers, if memory serves they are rated aboput the same in CC and max rpm , hp

2000 cc, 2000rpm 20+_ hp, I think the z120 had some 70-80 ftlbs of torque, honestly that is the real specification right there, I have 20 hp engines on my lawnmower bet that could not pull a 2 bottom plow through stumps, this one did despite its condition.

I have rebuilt the 3 point this summer, had a look at the hydraulic pump, fresh fluid, other linkages look decent. if it came down to furnace brazing or pinning, needless to say rebuilding the z120, I'd rather try to rig up a diesel motor on it.

I believe one of my Carrier units has a Kubota motor on it,

also this particular motor has a strong stench of burned gas smell, I tinkered some with the carb ( supposedly its rebuild ), maybe I got used to catalytic converters and fuel injection, are they supposed to smell this strong?, my lawn mowers are not as obvious,

if you add it all up I'd rather attempt a swap, thou I don't have the time for it these days, guess I'll patch it up a bit and see about getting another good summer with it, finish what I started and clear the rest of my lot till it and grade it, if it holds up to the beating I may just put a diesel on it as a reward for the last push.

http://www.dieselbombers.com/diesel-engine-conversions/110855-jeep-cherokee-xj-v2203-kubota.html

have a look at this, I happen to have one and I am tempted to rig it on my to 20

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?23480-V2203-DI-Jeep-Wrangler-TJ/page3

found some more detailed pictures of a swap, just to get an idea of what I am in for before I tear that reefer apart, it has an odd starter and its on the wrong side too, but that bellhousing can be removed and a new adaptor be made

It's your tractor and you can do as you want but the block having cracks between the cylinders is a well known problem that most of time doesn't affect anything. My main TO-20 is cracked between every cylinder. I put Bars Leak copper liquid glass in it four years ago. I left it in the tractor because it works with antifreeze and four years later the oil gets no water in it. The tractor doesn't over heat in the summer either and I put several hundred hours a year on mine using it on the farm. It does all the plowing,discing,cultivating,raking hay,I even picked corn with it using a mounted corn picker on it and the motor is still going strong.

I have had similar success with other such projects, and this particular tractor is showing a bit of progress since I have been using it last summer, key is to keep using it,

guess I am better off just fixing it a bit and give it another summer see what it does, it does have other issues besides the web cracks thou it sounds decent, no real knocks or tics, sounds real good for what it is, Id be inclined to say it had been rebuilt at least once and last time may not have been many hours ago, I have a feeling this tractor sat a lot before the previous owner resuscitated it, he did not get much use out of it.

I bought it knowing all this but it came with a lot of attachments, Id rather fix stuff rather than shop around for everything else

I do have to split it to deal with the ring gear and that got me thinking, I do that a lot and that is how I usually end up in trouble