TO20 split help

I posted a couple of days ago on this forum about the TO20 that won't start because I think the ring gear may have shifted backwards on the flywheel.
Someone was kind enough to measure the distance from the mounting face of the starter to the front face of the ring gear.
The dimension he gave me is almost 3/16" shorter than the dimension on my tractor.
This leads me to believe that my ring gear did in fact move backwards, and I will have to split the tractor to try to get the ring gear pressed back to the proper location on the flywheel.
I've never split any tractor before, and all I have in the way of a manual is the I&T manual.
That manual is at best very limited in information about any splitting procedure.
I've noticed on this forum, some good pictures and information, such as from Jeff-Oh about how to do a split the right way without loosing any important body parts in the process.
I am naturally at the moment quite poor, and was wondering if any one (such as Jeff) could lend me a hand in trying to get this job done.
Even if someone could tell me what would be the best manual to get me started, along with some inexpensive means to support the two tractor halves.
I have two 2 ton floor jacks, two bottle jacks, and a 3 ton-41" farm jack.
My barn floor is hard packed gravel and dirt, but I do have large sheets of plywood.
Once I get the tractor apart I need to know how to pry the ring gear off of the flywheel so I can press it back on. At this time I only have a small propane torch from ACE. Do I need more to heat up the ring gear to remove it and put it back on? Is there any way I can secure the ring gear better than just pressing it on the flywheel? Maybe a couple of well placed screws would work?
I apologize for the long winded post, but would appreciate any help, manual text, pictures, plans or any information at all.
I thank you all in advance and for all of the help I've received in the past!
This forum is really such a great gift for the financially challenged or anyone that uses or loves tractors.
Jack

There are alot of dirt poor people on here to, so join the club. Look, don't worry that it is a tractor insted of a Chevy. You got to know some one who does clutches on cars and trucks, tell him what you've got. You seem to have enough of the right tools and jacks, you just need an extra brain around. If you get the rest of the tractor appart so your freind can get into the big job quickly, he will be happier. DO you have a manual? That' always helps. Next thing,click the search box on the forum here, enter clutch or something, you will see pics of my project, held up with cinder blocks, and others who wrote about it or posted pictures. Don't rush, think it out and go find a freind who does car clutches. Good luck.

Just a possibility. With the starter removed, you might be able to swing a slide hammer in the starter hole and rotating the engine, ease it back into place all around. Sure beats a spllit. Good luck

I have had this problem and my advice to you is to find the correct flywheel. There were a bunch of early TO-20"s that had a design issue. There was no way to prevent the starter from knocking the ring gear off the flywheel. So the factory redesigned the flywheel with a small lip at the back edge and put the ring gear on from the front. The machined lip kept the flywheel from coming off from the starter impact. Theoretically, my TO-30 should not have had this problem but someone must have replaced the flywheel at some point and they tack welded the ring gear in position. (Nobody scrapped the old flywheels apparently. They probably sold them for cheap replacements.)Tack welding on white cast iron takes some special processes that almost no one did. The result in my case is the rig gear came off and jammed between the bell housing and the flywheel. I located the correct flywheel and replaced it. I still have the old one with the old ring laying next to it.
Several pople have come up with their own fixes using machine screws and washers to limit the backward motion of the flywheel. You can find these fixes in the archives.

I fixed mine about 10 years ago and the correct flywheel was $50+ shipping. It"s not a high demand part so I don"t think the price will be too outlandish. That"s one option.

The other option is make the mechanical fix which is not too difficult if you have access to a drill press and taps. You drill and tap some holes near the rim of the flywheel and fasten small tabs diametrically opposite one another to the flwheel. These taps stick above the flywheel rim but below root of the ring gear. You have to watch that you don"t unbalance the flywhel too much. You"d probably need at least four tabs held by two hardened machine screws each and they must not interfere with the clutch pressure plate assembely.

The third alternative is to take it to a welder that knows how to weld on white cast iron( the flywheel needs to be heated, then the ring gear needs to be welded and then the assembly needs to be cooled in a controlled fashion, as I understand the process.) This will likely cost you more than either of the other two alternatives.
The fourth aternative is to get a hand crank and start the engine the old fashioned way.

There may be additional alternatives (a big drill motor to turn the crank like the Indy cars use?) but that"s all I can think of at the moment.
The best manual is the ferguson factory manual for the TO-20,TE-20, and TO-30 and they are available on ebay for about $20 and shipping. It details the removal process. I don"t have a fax machine or I"d send you the section. It"s really not that difficult a process to split this tractor.

Heating the ring gear with a torch and then driving it on may be doable especially since you say it"s still on the flywheel. But it will still eventually come off again unless it"s mechanically restrained,especially if you have a 12v electrical system.

JDs quote:
"I have been told that my ring gear is falling off, but I can easily rotate the gear with a screwdriver 360 degrees over and over again. The gear remains in the same position on the flywheel with every rotation, and is not loose at all."

answer below.

If you can rotate the ring gear with a screw driver and the fan blade turns I don't think your ring gear is falling off. What usually happens is the ring gear jams in the bell housing and the engine won't turn at all. That is how it works for me anyway. Good luck!

Hi Jd... There is no easy fix, and you will have to split, although the advice of finding a flywheel with the lip is a good one. Even the lip is not fool proof and can crack and split off.... try to get a good one. Or, the old ring gear can be put back in place by a machine shop and it can be tacked to slow down the process again, but none of that cast metal welds very good and the heat affected regions can also crack..

If it were mine, I'd get the replacement flywheel and then split. And, depending on how much money you have left, I'd make some hard choices about the clutch.. probably at least a clutch disk.. but then after splitting it once you'll be a pro and can wait to do that later.

As for splitting, it would be easier if you could lift one end or the other (at the split) with something that would move forward or backward, like an overhead engine lift (cherry picker), as you need to separate the halves by a foot or so to do the work...

I like the slide hammer Idea. If you can cold work it back on it may take a while to work loose again. If not no big deal. Split then. Slide hammers are free loaner tools available at most national chain auto stores. If you have one near.

You can also remove the lower cover plate 6 0'clock position on bell housing and get to it from there. Or at least get a better view. You can see this plate removed in the first picture just behind the box. it also shows the box.


To split the tractor you will need a way to support and roll it away.

You can build a 2x4 engine box like we use on the tear down demo. Build a frame that fits the oil pan then a vertical support slightly taller than the front wheels. the bottom should have "out-riggers" to keep it from tipping. (see picture 1)

Then perhaps use your jack stands on car wheel dollys' (not sure I like this Idea) and cross support the transmission. to roll it away.

As a splitting procedure do this.

1) Remove hood
2) Remove Gas tank (4 bolts)
3) Disconnect wiring across flange.
4) Disconnect the air hose to carb.
5) Disconnect choke, Throttle (at U bolt.)

That should bt about all. Just make sure anything crossing the flange is not connected on both sides.

6) Remove the bolts. The 12 o'clock Stud (shown in pic) will hold it together while you work it apart.

Hope this ramble helps a little
Jeff

There's a couple more ways to start it without the starter,there's a hand crank on the front of the crankshaft and you could park it on a steep hill or get help and pull it off with a truck. I noticed on the things to disconnect that the oil line was omitted.I never worked on a tractor before my to20 and I just started taking everything that held it together off, I think you need to find someone close by to come and give it a look, might be something not requiring a split

If you split your tractor to fix the starter problem I would replace the ring gear with a new one. It would be a shame to do all that work and wind up the the same problem.

Thanks alot to everyone that replied!
Sorry for getting back to you late but I found a very nice friend that is letting me borrow his Farmall H to get my plowing done, while I try to figure out what I'm going to do with my TO20.
That same friend took a look at my TO20, and in his opinion, said he did NOT think that my ring gear shifted back at all.
He and his uncle have been restoring tractors for a while, and both say that its rare that a ring gear should slip off.
He seems to think that my problem lies in the cheap starter that I purchased from my local mechanic. His theory is that the Bendix is the wrong size, and I have a choice of at least two that will fit my starter.
Does anybody know if this might be true?
I will admit that I know very little about starters, but I did purchase it from a well liked local tractor mechanic, and didn't think I had anything to worry about.
The starter runs great out of the tractor, but just gives a slight CLUNK when mounted in the tractor.
This is why I requested a dimension from the starter mounting flange to the face of the ring gear in my earlier post, to compare what other tractors dimensions are.
Justin in Mass. was very helpful in giving me a dimension that was approx. 3/16" LESS than the dimension that my tractor has.
I don't know if this small amount of space means a lot, but was my reason for thinking I need a split.
To further help you to understand what I'm looking at, I'm sending a pic looking into the starter access hole at the ring gear mounted to the flywheel.
There is a small gap of aprrox. 1/8"- 3/16" between the ring gear and a flange on the flywheel that you can clearly see.
I assume that the ring gear should be butting up against this flange?
The camera angle is turned 90 degrees to get the camera close, so the bottom of the pic is towards the rear of the tractor.
If anyone has an opinion, please post before I split the tractor.
I do also like the idea of the slide hammer, but can't locate one, as of now.
Thanks once again EVERYONE!!!!!!!



Jack

After you split the machine and pull the ring gear, Hack saw it off. It is under spring tension and will snap open at the last second. If your holding it with your hand you will get injured. Just like I did!
To install, place kitchen oven to highest temperature, place in oven, 30 minutes, Plywood and ring gear on floor, Remove after 30 min and tap into position with wife's help. Best oven will allow enough expansion to slide on no problem. I had to use hammer sticks and tap it on.

It looks to me like the ring gear is moving back but the starter should still engage the ring gear. Are you sure you don"t have a TE-20 starter? The flywheel/ring gear combination requires a shorter throw on the starter drive gear. Even at that, you should not just hear a clunk. Are you sure that the battery is fully charged so that the starter can actually get enough current to spin? Are the cables large and the connections clean and tight? The starter should make a whirring noise if it doen"t engage the ring gear.

Is the starter you have a Delco starter that has been rebuilt or is it a take off from an old tractor? Did the seller test it under load or just test it to see it spun around? To test it under load, extend the drive gear and use a wooden wedge between the drive gear and the housing. Using jumper cables, connect the ground on the tractor battery to the flange on the starter. touch the other lead from the battery to the lug on the starter. If the drive is working the starter will jump but not turn and make a humming noise. That means the drive is working and the starter will produce some torque. If the the motor turns it will make a whirring noise and that meansthe drive is bad.

Since you have the starter off, measure the throw of the starter drive to see how far it extends. Will it move far enough to engage the teeth. Check the teeth to make sure that they fit the ring gear teeth.

So what options is one left with, I have to deal with this ring gear sliding off issue myself, I lost my hand crank so that's an indication I need to deal with it.

I read about the revised flywheels but apparently scrapyards is where they are, I don't know any around here, and to have something like that shipped? I'm not so sure its worth it, this site does not list them best I can tell.

welding was mentioned, sure I can do that, my ring gear had at one point come completely off, I managed to wrestle it back in place with half a channelock and a hammer and than another channel lock, I tried C clamps but not enough clearance, last time I did that I accidentally started the engine while turning it into a different position, seeing how easy that was I just handcranked it till I lost the tool.

problem with welding? cast iron/hardened steel? I only have a small mig welder, I'm not even sure it can be done with better equipment, brazing torches not sure I can get the material to flow between the 2 pieces, that would certainly fuze them,

I also read about drilling and tapping a few allen bolts, so far this idea is most appealing to me 4 or 6 bolts evenly apart, some thread mentioned drilling right in between the 2 pieces, not sure about that the ring gear may be weakened, I read about drilling parallel to the crank and using some large fenderwashers and bend them over the lip.

I was considering drilling at a 45 degree right on the lip and screw some small allen bolts that should hold it.

any other ideeas?