Need Help- TE-20 will not start.

Jeff-oh

Well-known Member
Ok, I am out of Ideas and need some help on the next steps.

Model: Ferguson TE-20 (cont. Z120 engine)
Background: Was mowing last October ran fine. There was heavy milk weed on other fuzzy seed in the air and I had to stop and clean the radiator several times as the Temp gauge started to climb. The air cleaner was also very clogged. I had it idling (nice and smooth) and it ran out of gas. It has not started since then.

What I have so far:
I have spark, Prior to this I have refurbished the ignition system (new wires, cap, rotor, condenser, coil, battery and key switch. All but the rotor was done prior to the last time it ran.

I also just cleaned and regapped the plugs and points.

Voltage Measurement seem good. 5.8 volts at the coil with the points closed.

Fuel: Carb has been serviced and cleaned. I dismantled and cleaned the carb. I did not have a rebuild kit. Only issue I have now is to double check the float and shut-off needle fuel will collect in the air tube.

Idle needle initial set at 7/8 turn open. Main at 1 turn Open. (per the shop service manual for the TE carb. (M-S)

Compression: (this may be my problem)
55 lbs 65 lbs 70 lbs 70 lbs: When I tested 4 years ago I had 85 90 95 95 or so. Thinking reduced compression was due to blocked air intake I removed the air cleaner. With the nothing attached to the carb air intake the compression improved to 65 70 80 80. low but at least relatively consistent.

I next added a thimble full of oil to each cylinder. Compression improved to 95 lbs on the 1st cylinder (I did not check the rest).

Still no start. Even with starter fluid sprayed into each cylinder or into the air intake.

Ideas? What's next?

Thanks in advance.
 
As bad as I hate to say it,I think you have already found the problem. 65 pounds is extremely low. I had to do a valve job on my old truck last year...two cylinders had burnt exhaust valves and only had 90 pounds and it wouldn"t hit on those two cylinders.
 
I am losing faith in compression readings. I only got 35 at best AFTER doing one of my famous scotchbrite valve jobs, I had little hope of this TEA ever starting again without coming apart again... I did my trick of (try to use a dumb friend if possible) keep bringing one plug on a wire closer and closer to a ground while cranking the engine- till it hits- or hurts..
Then another thing people hate to think about... a healthy shot of ether in the carb... hey for barely 30 lb. on the gauge, she nearly blew my ear drums out. Roars like a lion... a British Lion yes... but either electrical or fuel, sometimes they need a kick in the pants...
If that doesn't work... well, you know where LaGrange Indiana is??? I'll bring the starting fluid, I have a couple pallets full I found cheap...
 
Dumb friend you say???? Hum. That is such a loaded question in this crowd.

Problem is I will be bringing the tear apart tractor to La Grange. You gonna help me take her apart and put her back together again? You did such a good job last year.

FYI I did pull every plug and place it on the grounding nut and they all sparked nice. I only zapped myself once. I even shot either into each cylinder before replacing the plug. Still nada.

I may try pulling the valve cover and making sure the rocker and springs are working well and not gummed up.

Jeff
 
I get good fuel flow to the carb so don't think that is the problem, though I'll check.

Thank you for the reply
 
Yea, I'm thinking that. But when I got the compression up to 90 psi it still would not run. Also not sure why all the cylinders are keeping the same relative compression ratios. I'd think one would be way off and not all moving together.... It probally does need a engine overhaul. Though I would like to get it started first.
 
That is frustrating, covered all the bases and still nothing...

All that I can think of is have you checked for spark at each plug?

Have you checked the ignition timing? Could the distributor have turned, or the drive pin sheared or fallen out?

This is a long shot, but could the exhaust be restricted?

I think you have enough compression to run, especially if it came up to the 90's with oil in the cylinders. Might want to add a little more oil in the cylinders if you were spraying starting fluid in the cylinders. They could be washed down again. Speaking of oil, could the oil be contaminated with gas? Just thinking about the clogged air filter, but it would have to been really clogged for a long time.

If it was running and idling good before it quit it should run again.
 
My 3 cents.


Whats next...Read your list of entertainment.
Reminds me of "stupid human tricks".
Stupid human tricks can provide cheap entertainment for the rest of us whao are watching.
Case in point, the guy who jumps off the 40 foot building with a 50 foot bungee cord.
That there is stupid human trick that in turn provides the rest of us with cheap entertainment.
Cheap entertainment being low cost and possibly shown on the evening news or sometimes best when your buddy say's ..."Watch This!..."

So, as long as your watching, pop the dist cap ground the coil wire from coil and crank the engine. Do you see the points? ARE THEY SPARKING WHILE YOU CRANK THE ENGINE??
No?
Oops.
Run a fine file past them and break the glaze.
Re assemble and retest the starting. Oiling the cylinders lightly will increase the comp while cranking and should make it start faster and easier the first time. Too much oil will foul the plug and it won't fire.
 
How about the little carbon rod at the top of the inside of the distributor cap ? Give this a flick and see if it is stuck or snapped in two .
 
Had an issue with the spark 2 years ago and replaced the cap.

I am getting good spark it seams. Though I am not sure why it will not ignite the either at least.

I am thinking there may be something with the flooded carb.
 
Right now I feel the roll of the stupid human trick. "And if I am able to bring a little joy into your humdrum lives all my hard work will be worth it." - Sorry wife was watching "Singing in the Rain" this past weekend. Man, how does Gene Kelly make it look like he is walking on air, flowing like water across the screen? Ahem, I digress.

Points were pulled and cleaned. Re-set and re-gapped. Good spark at the points.

You may have something on the too much oil. I was not sure of how much and put in just shy of a shot glass of oil into each cylinder. I will pull a plug and check for fouling.
 
Are you talking gas in the oil pan? I did not notice anything on the dipstick, but I will check again.

I've checked each plug and they are all sparking when grounded. I regaped to .030. One plug had a fleck of carbon lodged between the terminals when I first pulled it out to clean. I wire brushed the plugs. But next time they're pulled I'll run a file over the inner terminal.
 
(quoted from post at 11:17:38 06/24/14) Are you talking gas in the oil pan? I did not notice anything on the dipstick, but I will check again.

I've checked each plug and they are all sparking when grounded. I regaped to .030. One plug had a fleck of carbon lodged between the terminals when I first pulled it out to clean. I wire brushed the plugs. But next time they're pulled I'll run a file over the inner terminal.

You've covered all the bases. An engine needs 3 things...fuel,spark,compression. You've sprayed ether in it. You know you have spark. What does that leave? Even if the spark was out of time it would pop out the exhaust or intake. The difference when you had it running and now is heat. Heat will help detonate fuel. That's why they had to add those thermostart systems to diesels. Cold they wouldn't crank but after the engine sucked the burning fuel into the cylinders it would crank because there was heat in there. I've took a hot air gun and blowed into carbs before to help engines crank that didn't have much compression. Back when I went to small engine school a Briggs and Stratton had to have a minimum of 40 pounds to even try to run.
 
Man o' man...after you lube the cylinders your 'spose to leave the plugs out and crank the engine over with rags over the holes. The idea is to catch the oil before it blows all over. It works some what...
Now put those plugs in, got spark at the points, pull off the rubber hose to the carby, shoot some ether while cranking and be prepared to not breathe when that sucker starts.
Ya got spark and compression, ya' got ether...If it don't fire up, you got no time.
Like I said, make sure your ventilated when it starts.
 
For what it worth I suspect a fuel problem. If you are cranking the engine and its not starting you should smell the unburnt petrol and most likely the plugs will be wet. You say you have a spark, so even with low compression or faulty timing it should at least make an effort to fart and splutter.

Leslie
 

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