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Re: Crank Timing Gear

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Author  [Modern View]

03-12-2014 15:17:58

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Rethinking this... The manual I looked at is for a later model, yours may have some shims there. If the back side of the crank gear is flat, it needs shims. If it has a shoulder, it does not need shims.

Something else to check is the end play on the crank thrust bearing. Be sure you have some free travel on the clutch, you may want to loosen the pedal and get a little extra just to be sure. Then push or pry back on the crankshaft to see how far it will go back. My book calls for .002-.006 end play, It will probably be more than that, and that's ok, but not excessive.

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Jeremy in DE

03-12-2014 15:52:48

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 Re: Crank Timing Gear in reply to Steve@Advance, 03-12-2014 15:17:58  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see


That makes more sense. Here's the diagram I was looking at from my manual. The top is a TO30. I had thought number 4 was the damaged piece I can see, but I'm not sure. It shouldn't hit the cam gear, I'm nearly sure.

So far I'm hearing I need to get that gear off and see what I've got behind it. Maybe remove a shim if needed to get it to go back on flush with the cam gear. Is it possible it was just never installed far enough back when some previous owner had it apart?

You mention "free travel on the clutch". I'm not clear on the meaning of this. But I was wondering how to asses end play. I figured it should have some (it is an old tractor) but so far I haven't got the shaft to move, although I wasn't sure how much to pry.

You asked about the slinger. It was there.

It's looks like tomorrow I'll head out to get a gear puller and something to press the gear back on.

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03-12-2014 16:44:25

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 Re: Crank Timing Gear in reply to Jeremy in DE, 03-12-2014 15:52:48  
OK, now were on the same page. Yes, #4 is the part the cam gear is chewing on. Part #16 is worn, and has let the crank move forward.

The crank will have to be removed to replace it. Good chance the thrust surface of the crank will be bad also.

The release bearing on the clutch may be applying forward pressure on the crank assy. You need to back off the adjustment to get a true feel of the end play of the crank.

Depending on how much you use the tractor, you will probably opt to remove the shim and move the crank gear back to stop the interference of the cam gear and the thrust plate. Not a good fix, but your looking at major tear down to fix it right.

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03-13-2014 06:56:44

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 Re: Crank Timing Gear in reply to Steve@Advance, 03-12-2014 16:44:25  
Jeremy, just to be straight what we're dealing with, the crank thrust bearing has failed completely. The crank has shifted forward way beyond where it's supposed to be.

It is still running that way, what it will hurt? Don't know, but it can't be good. It's up to you if you want to go in and repair it, time and money, or keep running it this way and possibly do more damage.

If you decide to just remove the shims and push the cam gear back, be aware the goal here is not to just line up the gears. That's not critical, what is critical is to maintain "some" end thrust clearance on the crankshaft. If you take out the entire shim, when you bolt the pulley back on and push the gear back, it could remove all the clearance and lock up the crank, not good! It will probably need some shim, as in having to make one the proper thickness.

Also, after you get the clearance set, check the length of the end of the crankshaft. From the front gear to the end of the crank must be less than the length of the inside of the front pulley plus the slinger. If it's too long the pulley won't tighten down against the crank gear.

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Duner Wi

03-12-2014 19:20:49

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 Re: Crank Timing Gear in reply to Steve@Advance, 03-12-2014 16:44:25  
If #16 is worn but to the point crank or block surfaces are damaged couldn't you break #16 out of there and use a flanged bearing like TO20??
If that would not work how about using Z134-Z145 mains that take trust off the center main. That has been discussed here but not certain if it works or not even tho I see at least one vendor that sells one main bearing set for Z120-129-134-145.

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03-12-2014 21:19:54

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 Re: Crank Timing Gear in reply to Duner Wi, 03-12-2014 19:20:49  
You know, I thought about that... Subing a TO20 front bearing. Never tried but looks like a maybe. Don't think a 134/145 center thrust would work, no thrust surface on the center journal of the crank.

Also wondering if removing the shim so the crank gear will go further back will allow the pulley to still tighten down. Might need to shim the front of the gear... Where does it all stop! By now I would be talking myself into pulling it out and fixing it right.

And... what are the consequences of running it with the crank shifted that far forward? What else is miss aligning? Rods binding? Starter drive hitting the front of the flywheel?

I hate guessing and short cuts!

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Duner Wi

03-13-2014 05:31:08

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 Re: Crank Timing Gear in reply to Steve@Advance, 03-12-2014 21:19:54  
I never tried it either but was sitting here thinking that it might work. After 60 years on these tractors you would think some one has been down this road before. I would not want the crank shifted forward more than a few thousands.

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