My to30 is a bear to start when temperatures a in the 20's does anyone have advise on how to get the tractor to start easier or is there sometime I'm doing wrong, maybe carb setting, timing, spark plugs what can I do and the reason to help save the starter been that I'm getting it rebuilt thank you
- Thread starter Z-man
- Start date
in our area we can still buy high test non ethanol gas, I normally run that gas in my old jeep and tractor during the winter.
also keep the gas treated with some type of gas treatment.
new wires, plugs points, hot strongest cca battery that will fit in to the battery box
sometimes you can keep an extra booster battery along side to help on a cold morning.
I also replaced my + and - battery cables with 0 gauge wires, the heavest napa could get me.
some even use welding cables with battery connectors staked onto them
maybe just a dab of starting fluid but I do not like to use that stuff if I do not have too.
keep it in a warm garage,
I once had a oil dip stick that I could plug in and it kept the oil warm, that helped some
what oil weight are you running, try 10 w 30
10 weight for starting
these items might help
how is your compression, as nothing will replace good compression to help you start
good fuel, good compression, good spark and proper timing, you should be good to go.
also keep the gas treated with some type of gas treatment.
new wires, plugs points, hot strongest cca battery that will fit in to the battery box
sometimes you can keep an extra booster battery along side to help on a cold morning.
I also replaced my + and - battery cables with 0 gauge wires, the heavest napa could get me.
some even use welding cables with battery connectors staked onto them
maybe just a dab of starting fluid but I do not like to use that stuff if I do not have too.
keep it in a warm garage,
I once had a oil dip stick that I could plug in and it kept the oil warm, that helped some
what oil weight are you running, try 10 w 30
10 weight for starting
these items might help
how is your compression, as nothing will replace good compression to help you start
good fuel, good compression, good spark and proper timing, you should be good to go.
its been my experience that these old machines all have a personality and that personality is most exhibited when a cold weather start is in order.
some like full choke other half or no choke at all. same way with throttle setting.
once you learn your machines quirks your frustration will ease.
I once had a to-20 that if I did not catch it on the first or second crank I had to walk away from it for 15/20 minutes, then come back hit the starter and it would fire right up.
some like full choke other half or no choke at all. same way with throttle setting.
once you learn your machines quirks your frustration will ease.
I once had a to-20 that if I did not catch it on the first or second crank I had to walk away from it for 15/20 minutes, then come back hit the starter and it would fire right up.
Jeremy in DE
Member
Is it still 6 volt? Or have you converted to 12? Does it crank OK but not start? Or just not crank right?
But mostly I'll echo s19438. I've found mine to have a few quirks. Even when cold it doesn't want a full choke. But it wants a partial choke nearly always unless the weather is really warm. One it catches, full choke, then none, then back to partial until hot. Etc etc.
Yours will be different probably, as it likely has it's own personality.
If we know your specific problem we might be better able to help.
But mostly I'll echo s19438. I've found mine to have a few quirks. Even when cold it doesn't want a full choke. But it wants a partial choke nearly always unless the weather is really warm. One it catches, full choke, then none, then back to partial until hot. Etc etc.
Yours will be different probably, as it likely has it's own personality.
If we know your specific problem we might be better able to help.
sorry I forgot to add that it is still 6 volt and I will most likely not be changing it to 12, unless a 12 volt system off a ford 8n will work on my to30, but that I don't know and it seem that when cold my engine need full choke and no throttle and there are times full will come not the carb were the main air goes in, when cold I usually have to jump it with my pickup, but when warm out or it has been run for a while it will start rite up, also have you ever heard of vapor lock I guess in the gas line? and how can you fix it
Maxwell 99
Member
Just ment that you have new spark plugs, you might check with Napa and use a plug that gives a hotter spark during the winter, the hotter plug will help burn the fuel faster.
Just insure the motor timing is right on specification. However you might try 2 degree + or - might help the motor start easier.
Since you just rebuilt the motor it should have good cylinder compression, I am sure you checked the cylinder compression, engines with low compression are hard to start. Thinner oil like a 10w30 might make the motor turn over faster.
Just saying, do everything you can to make the motor easier to start.
Good luck,
Just insure the motor timing is right on specification. However you might try 2 degree + or - might help the motor start easier.
Since you just rebuilt the motor it should have good cylinder compression, I am sure you checked the cylinder compression, engines with low compression are hard to start. Thinner oil like a 10w30 might make the motor turn over faster.
Just saying, do everything you can to make the motor easier to start.
Good luck,
I tried running 15W40 in our TO-30 and it was definetly harder to start in cold weather and I have a 12V system. It started but it was difinetly cranking slower with 15W40 compared to 10W40 so I switched back to 10W40.
You have a double whammy, 15W40 and a 6V system. 6V systems need to be tuned right on the money to start quickly in cold weather because you gave the reduced battery capability to deal with. It goes without saying that you should also have the throttle open part way and you should step on the clutch when you try to start so you aren't turning the transmission over with it's thickened oil. I have a regular point ignition system and I have to choke it a 10 below and hold the clutch down but it fires right up.
So my advice to you is to switch to a 10WXX oil, make sure you have a FAT, BLUISH-WHITE SPARK, the color of lightning, your timing is correct and you have a well charged battery. It would hurt to put a 1/8 turn out on the main mixture screw for winter condition either.
You have a double whammy, 15W40 and a 6V system. 6V systems need to be tuned right on the money to start quickly in cold weather because you gave the reduced battery capability to deal with. It goes without saying that you should also have the throttle open part way and you should step on the clutch when you try to start so you aren't turning the transmission over with it's thickened oil. I have a regular point ignition system and I have to choke it a 10 below and hold the clutch down but it fires right up.
So my advice to you is to switch to a 10WXX oil, make sure you have a FAT, BLUISH-WHITE SPARK, the color of lightning, your timing is correct and you have a well charged battery. It would hurt to put a 1/8 turn out on the main mixture screw for winter condition either.
thank you would I be better off to run solid copper wire for the spark plugs or fiber wire like what you can buy a the parts store these days. reason I ask is cause I made my own wire kit for the ignition system and thought to just use solid 12 gauge wire like what you would put in a house with a coating on it of course. and my timing is set at bout 6 degree before top dead center I believe, points gap at .02 and just a standard plug from this site, but new. I had thought of changing the wires but maybe I would be better off to change the oil to something less thick, also I do push the clutch in on all standard shift machines when start them.
I don't have compression gauge to check the pressure, but I would like it is good being that I did put the new parts in it and have not ran the engine more than 100 hours in the passed 4 or 5 months. in the event I could get a gauge what is the compression to be on that engine.
You can also try holding the clutch down when you are starting it so you are not turning the hydraulic pump and transmission gears in the cold, syrupy gear oil. That helps when I'm trying to get my 202 going to get it turning over a little faster in the cold.
Edit: someone beat me to that!
Edit: someone beat me to that!
Absolutely run a copper core spark plug wire. Carbon graphite wires don't belong on these tractors and neither does resistor spark plugs. Get you a set of copper core wires. and a set of Autolite 3116 spark plugs or Champion D18Y and a set of Blue Streak points DR2227XP
if you can get them where you live. If not get a set of Borg Warner A40H points. I crank my TO-20 in 20 degree weather quite often and it will fire up with no choke, but after it fires I have to pull the choke out and release it and then it is fine.
if you can get them where you live. If not get a set of Borg Warner A40H points. I crank my TO-20 in 20 degree weather quite often and it will fire up with no choke, but after it fires I have to pull the choke out and release it and then it is fine.
Yes you should use copper core spark plug wires and your plugs should be Autolite 3116's. If you have a FAT, BLUISH-WHITE SPARK, the color of lightning, then your point gap is correct and the ignition system is working correctly. (Point gap is supposed to be 0.022" as I recall.)
How's the mechanical condition of your distributor. The bushings can wear and that makes it difficult to get the requisite spark because the shaft is wobbling.
How's the mechanical condition of your distributor. The bushings can wear and that makes it difficult to get the requisite spark because the shaft is wobbling.
Tony in Mass.
Well-known Member
Well, I guess by now everyone here knows my passion for starting fluid. As a parts cleaner, electrical cleaner, cocktail mix, stale beer restorer, children and veterinary anastetic- oh, and engine starter.
In normal weather, the need for ether means there is a serious fuel system problem. But in cold weather when an engine needs ether, means it is a poor time to work on a bad engine. If someone has the heated garage or shop to work on the engine, they can leave the tractor in there to stay warm right?
I look at it this way for diesels.... starting fluid costs about half a penny per try, a diesel engine rebuild is a grand or 2 doing it yourself, 4 5 or 6 grand if done in town. It might take several years of abuse for starter fluid to ruin the rings- and this 'dryness' is what helps wet plugs on a flooded gas engine.
Like Inno said, nothing you can do about a stiff pulley or front pump, but keeping the clutch down while you try turning gummy old oil in the tranny...and it is 30 below- you are near Altoona? So you might as well live next to Inno- I rebuilt my 202 this time last year, on nice days, it starts at idle without a choke, but at 10 degrees or less, she don't wanna start at all. Ya do whatch gotta do, atleast till spring springs.
In normal weather, the need for ether means there is a serious fuel system problem. But in cold weather when an engine needs ether, means it is a poor time to work on a bad engine. If someone has the heated garage or shop to work on the engine, they can leave the tractor in there to stay warm right?
I look at it this way for diesels.... starting fluid costs about half a penny per try, a diesel engine rebuild is a grand or 2 doing it yourself, 4 5 or 6 grand if done in town. It might take several years of abuse for starter fluid to ruin the rings- and this 'dryness' is what helps wet plugs on a flooded gas engine.
Like Inno said, nothing you can do about a stiff pulley or front pump, but keeping the clutch down while you try turning gummy old oil in the tranny...and it is 30 below- you are near Altoona? So you might as well live next to Inno- I rebuilt my 202 this time last year, on nice days, it starts at idle without a choke, but at 10 degrees or less, she don't wanna start at all. Ya do whatch gotta do, atleast till spring springs.
Steve@Advance
Well-known Member
Looks like about every thing had been covered, only thing I haven't seen is starter condition. Have you looked at the bushings?
My experience with the 3116's is that they do make a difference. I have never had that experience with plugchanges before but Phil(VA) recommended them to me abot 5 years ago and they really did make a differece. They are a non- resistor plug, whee as the other recommended Autolite plug (386?) is a resistor plug. Give 'em a try.
thank you for the reply, it sounds like starter fluid will be placed near or on top your head stone, I had mentioned in one of my replies that I had put new rings and head gasket, so the compression should be close to what is needed, though I'm not sure bout the fuel/ air mixture is perfect and I'm wondering if that is part of my trouble with the start up process when cold, but when outside temp is warm it will start without choke and then I have to add a little to keep it running, but not long and it runs great thank for you help
Jerry,Hi!, I tried them after I talked to you. Switched from 386's. Runs a lot better with the 3116's. Mine is 12 volt with elect. ign.. -15 deg. I don't think it makes a full revolution and it fires and idles at 400 rpm with about half choke for a few seconds. Good tip-Thanks-ed
Altona MB??? Just like here.......only windier. Been there once, many moons ago. Partied with some ex-Hutterites. Cool people, learned some swear words in German..........Aaaaaanyway, back to the tractors.
Yeah, the ole' 202 here is about the same, anything below 10°F or so and she's a no go. If I could disengage the front mounted pump we might stand a fighting chance. That or fit a battery designed for a Mack truck in there! The TO-35 will start in ANY weather.......'cause it's in the garage.........where the avg. temp is somewhere around 50°F. :lol:
Inno, Hi!, A gresen vain pump is the cure for that
problem. Features no load starting. The vains do
not start it pumping till it reaches 500 rpm,then
it will pump down to 300 rpm. Mine will lift the
loader idling at 400 rpm.
I've had one on the front of my 35 for almost 30
years, run the loader and backhoe off it. Good long
life pump and you don't have to race the engine to
lift heavy load.- About $300.00 at surplus center.
I have all the info. if you are interested-ed
problem. Features no load starting. The vains do
not start it pumping till it reaches 500 rpm,then
it will pump down to 300 rpm. Mine will lift the
loader idling at 400 rpm.
I've had one on the front of my 35 for almost 30
years, run the loader and backhoe off it. Good long
life pump and you don't have to race the engine to
lift heavy load.- About $300.00 at surplus center.
I have all the info. if you are interested-ed
Thanks for the info Ed. I learn something new every day. If I hadn't replaced the factory one a couple years ago I would very likely look into that. The one I put on also came from the surplus center. I had to modify things a little bit to get it to fit but so far so good.
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