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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

fergie TO-20 3 point/hydraulics issue

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smittyslilfergie

02-02-2014 16:01:14
76.204.113.212



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I have a 1950 fergie to 20, when I bought it the seller went thru all the functions and the 3 point went up and down , the pivot control arm was very touchy . I got home and attached a drag blade which is just a 6 ft plain old blade so its not way heavy.
now my 3 point would not move, then it went up til the chains were ready to pop, after a few days the blade dropped on its own . I changed out the fluid which looked like tan lumpy turkey gravy, I had to vacuum it out because it would not flow out the drain . i used a little diesel fluid to clean out the housing , thn re vacumed .
Aftr new fluid i thought it was fixed as the lever controlled the up motion but then with no load on the 3 point it went up to max and is again stuck. I did notice the control lever had a few pieces of metal bolted together to make up the linkage to the control valve . also when I moved the lever past the bolt trying to raise the arms the lever linkage moved a little front to back but very little movement. I do not know what else to do but any help would be appreciated. If anyone is close to Howell michigan I would be willing to pay to make this work correct. All I want to do is play with the blade in the snow

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Red_Chili

02-05-2014 08:17:13
174.51.167.21



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 Re: fergie TO-20 3 point/hydraulics issue in reply to smittyslilfergie, 02-02-2014 16:01:14  
With 90wt in mine (from the previous owner, actually looks good on the dipstick so not in a huge hurry to change it) it will kill the motor when I let out the clutch - UNLESS I use an electric magnetic sump heater on it.

It could be that it just gets a lot colder in Colorado, dunno. 10w30 is starting to look quite attractive.



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John(UK)

02-04-2014 10:43:10
79.76.252.15



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 Re: fergie TO-20 3 point/hydraulics issue in reply to smittyslilfergie, 02-02-2014 16:01:14  

If the check chains are going tight when you lift, they shouldn't do that. This can be caused by chains too short or that the attachment brackets around the PTO are fitted upside down so that the Chain attachment point is below the centre line of the PTO shaft, if this is the case they should be re-attached with the chains fitted above the centre line of the PTO. Washing out with Diesel is not a good idea as it will not all drain out and this will thin your new oil. When the 3 point is sticking at the top this is because the chains are too short and this is causing the Control Valve to stick, because it is trying to lift and being prevented by the Check Chains and it is building up a pressure that is causing the Control Valve to stick. You need to free the Control Valve by removing the Plate with the dipstick on the right below the seat. You will see the Control Fork hanging down from the top and going into the oil. You should use a screwdriver and move the Control Fork, back-wards and for-wards a few time GENTLY. It should move a couple of inches. DON'T PUT YOUR HANDS IN THE OIL< One the Control Valve is free you need to allow the oil to warm up so that any old oil will be cleared from the Valve and then it will work easily. Don't user the hydraulic s while the oil is cold to start with or it may stick again.
It will possibly also need the Control Lever re-setting
If you want all this and more, in writing, email me and I will send it...John(UK)..fergusontractors@hotmail.com

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JerryMT

02-02-2014 21:32:22
206.183.116.150



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 Re: fergie TO-20 3 point/hydraulics issue in reply to smittyslilfergie, 02-02-2014 16:01:14  
it sounds like you control valve maybe sticking. With the lift lever down, remove the right side access cover and you will see an "H" shaped contol fork that goes under the fluid level.WITH THE ENGINE OFF (NEVER REACH INTO THE COMPARTMENT WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING ESPECIALLY IF THE PTO IS CONNECTED), reach under the oil surface and feel for the bottom of the control fork. You should feel a "T" shaped control valve stem and the cross piece should be in the sockets on the bottom of the "H" shaped control fork. Now pull the control valve stem back and forth. If the lift is UP, when you pull back it will drop. It should move back and forth easily and smoothly. If it sticky or rough feeling it got some crap and corruption in between the control valve and control bushing.

Now start the engine and engage the pto/pump. Move the lift lever full up and observe the control linkage. You should see the bottom of the control fork move forward and the lift should rise. Now put the lift lever full down and the bottom of the control fork should move to the rear and the lift should drop. report back on what you find.

As the other rposter said, get a Ferguson Shop Manual. You can find them on ebay in pdf format or in paper back. They run about $20 for paperback and~$25 + for pdf. Do not waste your mobey on the IT manuals as they are not for beginners. Get the factory manual.

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Steve@Advance

02-02-2014 18:28:46
107.203.134.67



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 Re: fergie TO-20 3 point/hydraulics issue in reply to smittyslilfergie, 02-02-2014 16:01:14  
As Tony said a couple posts back, get a manual!

The control linkage for the lift is complex. A picture tells a much better story. The fact that it moved slightly forward and back is good, that's all it's supposed to do. If there is rust accumulated around the upper linkage, it can interfere with it's operation. The only way to really free everything up is to pull the top cover and disassemble it. Not hard to do, but heavy!

But first, open the right inspection cover and test/cycle the control valve. Once in there, you will see where the control linkage pushes on the valve roller linkage. You can push the roller to the side and unhook it from the control lever. Cycle the spring loaded valve back and forth several times to dislodge anything that may be in the valve. Start it up,look in the case with a flashlight and see where the moving parts are. Being EXTREMELY careful, reach in and move the roller lever forward and the lift should go up. Let it return and it should go down.

If this test is successful, the valve in the pump is good. If this is not successful, the pump will need to be pulled to service the valve.

If the valve tests good,reconnect the lever to the roller and try the controls.

If it still malfunctions, there is an adjustment nut below the roller, but again, a manual will explain much more than I can here.

Back to the water in the transmission... That is a common problem. If stored outdoors, it will get in around the shifter boots AND around the upper draft link, where the upper link of the three point connects. There is a rubber boot under the seat that rots away.

Again, be careful reaching in the transmission with it running! There are moving parts in there, even in neutral!

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samn40

02-03-2014 15:57:34
86.153.193.143



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 Re: fergie TO-20 3 point/hydraulics issue in reply to Steve@Advance, 02-02-2014 18:28:46  
Steve, I think you are describing the workings of a 35??? Smitty has a TO 20!.......... Sam



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Steve@Advance

02-04-2014 08:01:15
108.245.66.82



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 Re: fergie TO-20 3 point/hydraulics issue in reply to samn40, 02-03-2014 15:57:34  
Oops! My bad. That is a 35 I was describing. Didn't do my homework.
The 20&30... They don't have draft control do they?



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Jason S.

02-04-2014 08:19:49
204.54.36.245



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 Re: fergie TO-20 3 point/hydraulics issue in reply to Steve@Advance, 02-04-2014 08:01:15  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Yes they have draft control. They do not have position control.



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smittyslilfergie

02-02-2014 19:12:18
76.204.113.212



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 Re: fergie TO-20 3 point/hydraulics issue in reply to Steve@Advance, 02-02-2014 18:28:46  
thanks , got 2 manuals which show some of what I need but can never replace a veterans personal knowledge. I was looking for real troubleshooting and I really think you explained better than a book



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Steve@Advance

02-02-2014 20:11:13
107.203.134.67



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 Re: fergie TO-20 3 point/hydraulics issue in reply to smittyslilfergie, 02-02-2014 19:12:18  
One more thing, the original oil requirements called for a very heavy oil. That won't work in cold weather.

The new recommendation is either 10w40 engine oil or universal tractor transmission oil, made just for old tractors that share the trans oil and hydraulics. Tractor Supply has it.



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Jason S.

02-03-2014 05:50:22
204.54.36.245



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 Re: fergie TO-20 3 point/hydraulics issue in reply to Steve@Advance, 02-02-2014 20:11:13  
I wouldn't recomend universal tractor fluid as most of it is not yellow metal safe. Which means it will eat away at the bushings in the transmission. Either go with the 10w30 engine oil or the GL1 90 weight mineral oil.



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smittyslilfergie

02-03-2014 04:43:25
173.13.14.81



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 Re: fergie TO-20 3 point/hydraulics issue in reply to Steve@Advance, 02-02-2014 20:11:13  
I did use the 90w tractor oil from Tractor supply , this is the oil for everything ...should I replace with a lighter fluid ?



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Jason S.

02-04-2014 18:30:03
174.237.38.67



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 Re: fergie TO-20 3 point/hydraulics issue in reply to smittyslilfergie, 02-03-2014 04:43:25  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

The GL1 90 weight mineral oil will work fine. Yes it is thick when it is cold but if you let your tractor warm up first it will be fine. I have GL1 in mine and I routinely use it in cold weather. I just let it warm up for a bit before I use it. Go ahead and use it since you already have it in there. No reason to waste $50.00 worth of oil.



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Steve@Advance

02-04-2014 18:06:57
107.203.134.67



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 Re: fergie TO-20 3 point/hydraulics issue in reply to smittyslilfergie, 02-03-2014 04:43:25  
Yes 90W is going to be too heavy, especially in cold weather. The hydraulics will move very slowly. But it will work until you get the problems worked out, just in case you have to drain it to work on it.

I would also be concerned with the cleanliness of the bottom of the case. To my knowledge there is no filter on the pump intake. Since there was water in it, there's probably rust falling down from where the water condenses above the oil level. All you can do is clean it best you can, vacuum and blot it out before refilling it.

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smittyslilfergie

02-03-2014 04:39:05
173.13.14.81



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 Re: fergie TO-20 3 point/hydraulics issue in reply to Steve@Advance, 02-02-2014 20:11:13  
I will give this a try tonight and reply with my findings. The manuals I have are from 1950 and the cartoon pictures are blurry , I will find a newer manual as I have a feeling this will not be the last time I stick my hands in the guts of this ole fergie. so far from what I see these old tractors are simple design and very fixable in most environments but you guys are the key with your experienced advice.

You guys are Awesome and way better than a manual,

Thanks

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