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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

IDing early Ferguson.

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Radagast

01-19-2014 00:58:33
101.171.85.70



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G'day all. I am attempting to ID my father's Ferguson, with the intention of putting it back in service. There is no battery, so my first question is it 6 or 12 volt. I know the water pump needs replacing as a minimum, and there are oil leaks from most joints including the PTO. It last ran around 8-10 years ago and has been garaged since then.

The aluminum serial number plate is still in existence under the steering wheel, but is corroded. There are 4 numerals stamped on it in descending order:
2
3
78 or 18

There is what appears to be a serial number on the front of the passenger side rear axle housing: 400207 R 02 The R is in a triangle.

The motor is to be a Standard unit with horizontal oil filter.

Is 400207 the serial number? If so then I know it should take a 12 volt battery. Can the fuel type, variant or year of manufacture be IDed from the 4 numerals in the ID plate?

Thanks in advance for any help, If the above is not enough please let me know what is required and I will check the next time I visit my parents.

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Bob (Aust)

01-28-2014 21:54:17
58.164.167.218



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Radagast, 01-19-2014 00:58:33  
You have my email address. If I can help you in any way, contact me.
The Gregory's manual is very abbreviated, not ideal, but I find it OK for almost all repairs I need to carry out.

I also have the factory Service Manual if you need greater detail of repairs or service.

Bob
This post was edited by Bob (Aust) at 21:55:13 01/28/14.



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Radagast

01-30-2014 09:57:20
49.187.26.207



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Bob (Aust), 01-28-2014 21:54:17  
Thanks Bob. Will do if I require help. Abbreviated is probably best at the moment. I need 'the knee bone connects to the thigh bone' type instruction, not a degree in orthopedic surgery.



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Bob (Aust)

01-28-2014 13:58:14
58.164.167.218



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Radagast, 01-19-2014 00:58:33  
You will need an original TEA20 Service Manual or this alternate:



Around $55 at Dealers and on EBay.

Reproduction Instruction Manuals are useful:



Around $30 on EBay.

Your Fergy is simple and elementary, great for slashing, grading, ploughing etc.
Do NOT try pulling stumps or it will flip backwards.
Bob
This post was edited by Bob (Aust) at 14:06:15 01/28/14.

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Radagast

01-28-2014 17:48:43
101.170.127.251



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Bob (Aust), 01-28-2014 13:58:14  
Thanks Bob. I've ordered the Gregory's workshop manual and the Haynes enthusiasts manual. Hopefully they will keep me out of trouble.



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Radagast

01-26-2014 05:24:22
101.171.170.153



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Radagast, 01-19-2014 00:58:33  
Thanks for all the replies. So it appears to be a 1950 delivery TEA20, with head mounted water pump, an issue with the steering and a body that has been rebuilt and may now be 12 volt.

I'll definitely get better pics next time I am at my parents.

I'm open to suggestions for any books or vids I should buy on operating and maintenance for the Ferguson. Bear in mind my level of expertise is the ability to identify it as a tractor and not much beyond that.

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Bob (Aust)

01-24-2014 13:40:52
58.164.167.218



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Radagast, 01-19-2014 00:58:33  
TED20 with a Vanguard/Triumph distributor and a "foreign" distributor cap (like the Fergy, the plug leads in a Vanguard and Triumph screwed in.)

:)

The engine and transmission casting dates will be very interesting......... Wonder whether it has the later model, heavy duty diff housing?

Bob
This post was edited by Bob (Aust) at 13:41:22 01/24/14.



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Charles in Aus.

01-23-2014 13:57:45
211.30.51.152



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Radagast, 01-19-2014 00:58:33  
Dash , air cleaner and numbers say six volt . Starter and bell housing says twelve . Pump seems to be on the head , but then I can never tell from photographs from the distributor side . Fuel tank has the spillover flange found on many post 1953 Australian tanks to stop spillage from ruining the ignition leads.

Best guess is that it has had an engine and gearbox transplant , however the bonnet, steering turret ,air cleaner , dash and fuel tank are usually all badly damaged and subsequently replaced in a serious rollover .These components may have been sourced from a six volt. Too much scope for conjecture really, casting marks on the transmission may help but a visual inspection is probably the only certain method of determining exactly what it is .

Just noticed the independent brake pedals on your photos Bob . They appear to be the larger ones found on 12 volt tractors . It seems this one is a real mixture .
This post was edited by Charles in Aus. at 16:40:39 01/23/14.

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Charles in Aus.

01-23-2014 14:05:52
211.30.51.152



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Charles in Aus., 01-23-2014 13:57:45  


This photograph shows a typical six volt tractor's bellhousing which is lacking the much larger twelve volt bulge . This particular example has had the original six volt starter replaced by a six/twelve conversion unit .

Notice also the distributor borrowed from a car , the coil appears to be from one also .
This post was edited by Charles in Aus. at 01:14:59 01/24/14.

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Bob (Aust)

01-23-2014 04:24:17
58.164.167.218



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Radagast, 01-19-2014 00:58:33  
Charles

Are you agreeing this tractor appears to have a 12 volt starter?
It has the earlier air cleaner with vented top and no dash air intake.

More photos:

[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Woomera/media/DSCF2322S_zps693f0b67.jpg.html][/URL]

[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Woomera/media/DSCF2310S_zps547310a3.jpg.html][/URL]

Is that the early or late model water pump?

Looking at that radiator hose, the front axle pivot pin is badly worn and needs replacement before the fan fits the shroud (which seems to be partly missing) and the radius rods get bent if they are not already.

Bob in Oz

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Charles in Aus.

01-23-2014 02:25:05
211.30.51.152



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Radagast, 01-19-2014 00:58:33  
The delivery number and some other features show that this tractor is a 1950 model TEA20 that would have left the factory with a six volt electrical system and an 80mm engine But it has a 12 volt starter bulge on the gearbox bellhousing! It is possible that the gearbox and engine have been swapped over at some stage .A six volt engine will not bolt onto a twelve volt bellhousing so both if any must have been changed .

The number 2419 in NSW refers to a delivery made to Sydney docks between the first of July 1950 and the thirtieth of September 1950.

As a rule of thumb [ assuming the tractor has not had major surgery ]all tractors with air vents in the dash have 85mm 12 volt engines. The air cleaner is also very different on the 6 volt model having a distinctive vented top.

I would try to very gingerly remove the serial number plate and look at its back , the number impressions can almost always be seen in reverse
This post was edited by Charles in Aus. at 02:37:03 01/23/14 2 times.

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Bob (Aust)

01-21-2014 17:24:57
58.164.167.218



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Radagast, 01-19-2014 00:58:33  
Thanks Jason.
Did the 6 volt Lucas starter have the same outer casing as the 12 volt Lucas starter, or was the case "stepped", similar to the 6 volt starter fitted to the Continental engine TE20?

Bob



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Bob (Aust)

01-21-2014 10:51:18
58.164.167.218



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Radagast, 01-19-2014 00:58:33  
What do the photos tell me:

Photo 1. Standard engine, TEA20 or TED20. I am almost sure that is a 12 volt Lucas starter? The voltage should be stamped into the casing.

Photo 2. Casting number. Doesn't mean anything.

Photo 3. Something odd? It appears there is no dash air intake vent? I have a vague recollection the early TEA20's did not have a dash vent? It appears the battery ground is still attached to the back of the dash and should be moved to a better earth.

Photo 4. Those vertical numbers (2 4 19??) are not the serial number, probably the Australian delivery number? Charles is the expert on Australian delivery numbers... :lol:
The serial number along the bottom is not readable however I think I can see an "A" and a series of numbers?

The date on the transmission housing may be the best guide? Also that data plate may clean up enough to read the serial number, with very fine sandpaper?

If it is 6 volt, 6 volt batteries are around the same price as 12 volt batteries, $100 to $150. Try Repco, Supercheap or your local tyre service.

A 6 volt battery needs a 6 volt battery charger, although most battery chargers are switchable between 6 and 12 volts.

Bob in Oz

'53 TEA20
This post was edited by Bob (Aust) at 10:58:31 01/21/14.

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Jason S.

01-21-2014 12:49:51
204.54.36.245



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Bob (Aust), 01-21-2014 10:51:18  
They never got the air intake on the dash until they went to the 85mm engine which was in 1951.



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Bob (Aust)

01-21-2014 10:33:09
58.164.167.218



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Radagast, 01-19-2014 00:58:33  
Photos of Radagast's TEA20:

[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Woomera/media/Ferguson%20Tractor/DSCF2304S_zps1ff8e008.jpg.html][/URL]

[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Woomera/media/Ferguson%20Tractor/DSCF2306S_zpsabe17aee.jpg.html][/URL]

[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Woomera/media/Ferguson%20Tractor/DSCF2309S_zpscf16d746.jpg.html][/URL]

[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Woomera/media/Ferguson%20Tractor/DSCF2318S_zps7888d4ab.jpg.html][/URL]

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Bob (Aust)

01-20-2014 13:14:21
58.164.167.218



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Radagast, 01-19-2014 00:58:33  
But careful - I am sure it is not a 6 volt tractor. I thought 1949 was the last year for 6 volt TEA20's?

The Lucas starter motor should have the voltage stamped on it, however if the starter motor looks like this, it is 12 volt:

[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Woomera/media/Ferguson%20Tractor/12voltstartermotor.jpg.html][/URL]

The coil may also be marked with the voltage.

Unless converted, it is probably still Positive (+) to ground/earth.

Email the photo of your data plate to me and I'll post it here: bfulton@goldenwest.org.au

Bob in Queensland

'53 TEA20
This post was edited by Bob (Aust) at 13:32:55 01/20/14 2 times.

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Jason S.

01-20-2014 16:01:23
174.237.42.38



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Bob (Aust), 01-20-2014 13:14:21  
No...they changed to 12 volt in 1951. Starting at serial 200,001.



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Paul in AZ

01-20-2014 06:24:59
69.92.50.74



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Radagast, 01-19-2014 00:58:33  
You may find some helpful information at this site.



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Bob (Aust)

01-19-2014 14:14:09
58.164.167.218



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Radagast, 01-19-2014 00:58:33  
Very observant. It was a test to see if everyone was watching........

My mistake - now fixed!! :lol:



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Bob (Aust)

01-19-2014 11:10:52
58.164.167.218



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Radagast, 01-19-2014 00:58:33  
I can't make any sense of that serial number but if it is a 1950 TEA20, I think it will be 12 volt.

Radagast's IP address indicates he is in Australia so there is 99.9% chance it will be a TEA20 (or TED20).
Perhaps Radagast could answer these questions:

Is this the engine in your tractor:

[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Woomera/media/Ferguson%20Tractor/Fergy106_zpsea6e4845.jpg.html][/URL]

If so, it is a Ferguson TEA20 (or TED20).

What are the numbers cast into the transmission casing, right side, below the seat:

[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Woomera/media/Ferguson%20Tractor/Fergy111_zps755d2efd.jpg.html][/URL]

On my tractor "6 7 3" = 6 July 1953.

You mentioned "There are 4 numerals stamped on it in descending order" and I suspect you may be including an Australian delivery number which was stamped into the data plate on some Australian tractors.

Look only at the one letter and row of numbers after the "TE". What letter and numbers can you read and how many numerals after the "TE" on your data plate:

[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Woomera/media/Ferguson%20Tractor/DataPlate1.jpg.html][/URL]

The letter should be "A" or "D", unless it is a diesel in which case the letter will be an "F".

Answer those questions and I think we will be able to tell you exactly what tractor you have!! :lol:
Bob in Oz

'53 TEA20
This post was edited by Bob (Aust) at 19:04:42 01/19/14 4 times.

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Charles in Aus.

01-19-2014 12:59:00
211.30.61.158



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Bob (Aust), 01-19-2014 11:10:52  
Bob , I think you mean 1953. :)



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Jason S.

01-19-2014 07:26:51
174.237.8.227



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Radagast, 01-19-2014 00:58:33  
The number on the axle is probably a casting number. The number on the tag under the steering wheel should be the serial number. If that number is right it would be a 1950 TEA-20. I don't remember the serial number break but in June 1947 is when they switched to the standard engine. It would be a 6 volt tractor. Some of the others on here can tell you where to look on the TE tractors for casting dates,but if the number you gave is the stamped number at the bottom of the tag under the steering wheel then that is your serial number.
This post was edited by Jason S. at 07:30:29 01/19/14.

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Radagast

01-20-2014 03:24:33
49.188.85.144



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Jason S., 01-19-2014 07:26:51  
G'day Gents, yes I am an Aussie. That is the style of motor. I'm in Sydney, The tractor is 700km away at the moment, so I can't check the block. As a new user I can't post photos or links, unfortunately. I do have a pic of the plate. The plate has no paint left, and is quite corroded. I could not make out any other details, such as the serial number. The digits are stamped roughly centrally in descending order and around 15-20mm high.

If it is a 6 volt unit is there an Australian supplier of appropriate batteries or do I need to buy a 12 volt conversion?

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Radagast

01-21-2014 03:24:25
49.188.85.144



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Radagast, 01-20-2014 03:24:33  
Thank gents. I rechecked my photo of the plate, there is a serial number stamped across the bottom, but its completely illegible. So far I've not found a 6 volt battery online that is less than $300, a bit more than I want to pay. I'll keep looking. I'm assuming deep cycle batteries are not whats required.

Will a normal battery charger from Super Cheap or Repco do the job or will a 6 volt battery require a special charger?

Were all Australian TEAs 6 volt? If they were a mix of 6 & 12 then I'll hold of purchasing the battery until I've rechecked the machine to find out the year.

Thanks for your time and knowledge.

All the best,

Ken

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Charles in Aus.

01-20-2014 13:25:57
211.30.61.158



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Radagast, 01-20-2014 03:24:33  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

From this description it sounds like you are looking at the Australian delivery number . These were stamped on the id plate when unloaded in NSW. The numerals are much larger than the serial numbers and are quite roughly stamped . The correct serial number is very neat , starts with TE, and then an A or D followed by a number as per Bob's post .

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Bob in Australia

01-20-2014 12:53:17
220.239.99.193



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Radagast, 01-20-2014 03:24:33  
You can buy 6 volt battery at any of the battery suppliers eg Century. Easy to find in Sydney



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Radagast

01-27-2014 01:22:12
101.171.255.230



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Bob in Australia, 01-20-2014 12:53:17  
G'day again gents. Thanks for all the snippets of info. It will be a month before I can get back to my parents place to check it out / take more photos.

Are there any books on the Ferguson that you would recommend I buy in the meantime? Preferably aimed at people who's skill level is the ability to identify it as a tractor and not much more than that. Basic maintenance, parts lists, basic manual of operation for the tractor and implements all come to mind as things I will need. So what would you recommend?

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Maineman

01-27-2014 18:26:16
198.228.200.148



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 Re: IDing early Ferguson. in reply to Radagast, 01-27-2014 01:22:12  
i haven't seen any books on Fergusons.

But I have enjoyed the "Ferguson on the farm" cd series

By old pond publishing in England. It's videos of a collector using a lot of Ferguson equipment on his farm in England.

Joe



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