Brakes - can this be done?

Don Hooks · Nov 26, 2013

I use my 30 to cut grass, move a little dirt, and occasionally move my pontoon boat (it is a little heavier than the Fergy)- all on level ground. I"m building a boat ramp and would like to be able to launch and retrieve the boat with the tractor. The brakes work now that they have been relined but I"m convinced they wouldn"t slow the boat on the ramp. They are just too weak (I"m certainly not too light). I"ve been toying with the idea of replacing the drums and shoes with discs and calipers (and master cylinders) and there appears to be enough room if I can fabricate a mount for the calipers. Another thought is to add a couple of pieces to the existing linkage to multiply the force exerted on the shoes (at the expense of a longer pedal travel, unfortunately). Anybody done either of these and succeeded (or failed)?

Richard L · Nov 26, 2013

This is an intriguing idea. First off you say you relined the brakes. Have you tried to tighten them up more. I have seen some brakes on a TO 30 that were so tight I wondered why that owner never had problems of being to tight but he said never had any trouble. Maybe he never drove it a lot all at once but the brakes would stop most any load I think he could have pulled. I would try tightening them up more to save a lot of extra work.

ShadetreeRet · Nov 26, 2013

I have been considering the same idea for my TO-30, as it should give considerable more braking pressure.
I'm needing to replace axle seals and brake shoes, and the thought occurred to me one day. Personally I'm more inclined to try the drum set up, but I can understand your thoughts about the disc units because of water being involved.I see no reason why either could not be done, with proper planning and care.

samn40 · Nov 26, 2013

With your brakes set up correctly and properly adjusted they should lock up the wheels with moderate foot pressure....how much more braking do you need? A coversion to TE type drums may help as they are larger diameter then the TO units.....but to use disc type brakes near to water would mean rusted discs and seized callipers? Deutz tractors went down the route of car type brake discs (only on steroids!) These were OK if the tractor was used every day, but let it sit a few days in a damp climate and the discs rusted taking a lot of brake material with them the next time they were used, then the discs formed ridges then the.......??
Get the picture?
How about rigging up the brakes on your boat trailer so they can be operated from the tractor? A hydraulic ram connected to the cable and a remote on the tractor or even a simple cable operated handbrake that could be lifted off the boat trailer frame and slotted into a corresponding bracket on the tractor.
Sam

Jason S. · Nov 26, 2013

After you relined the brakes did you burn them in as instructed in the manual?

Don Hooks · Nov 26, 2013

Yes, I "burned" them in as described in the shop manual and it went from almost nothing to enough to stop normally but never would slide the tires on grass or gravel. Perhaps I need to replace the shoes with those from another source (got these relined at a shop used by many AG mechanics). Any suggestions for a better source?

Don

Don Hooks · Nov 26, 2013

The boat and trailer weigh about 3400 lbs and the ramp slope is about 15 degrees so the tractor has plenty of power to pull out but I don't want to take a bath while launching so I will have to do something. Sam's suggestion about trailer brakes may be the simplest fix but electric brakes don't work well in reverse so I would have to turn the trailer brake components around and refrain from any senior moments such as taking it on the highway without putting them back in their normal layout.

Don

Jason S. · Nov 26, 2013

Was the shoes being oil soaked the reason you had them relined?

Duner Wi · Nov 26, 2013

TO30 brakes should slide the tires on pavement with minimal effort. Something is not up to snuff.
Now if you had a 9N Ford I could understand your dilemma.

Don Hooks · Nov 26, 2013

The shoes were relined following seal replacement so, yes, they were oil soaked. The seals seem to be doing their job now. I"m beginning to suspect the shoe material might not be optimum.

Don

Jason S. · Nov 26, 2013

That's kind of what I'm thinking... I've never been a fan of rebuilt clutches they do not seem to ever be as good or last as long as the originals in my experience. So i question the material that they use to reline them. If the brakes are right it will lock the wheels up. If it were me I would get a new set of shoes from Agco and take the drums to a truck shop or somewhere and have them turned and trued up.

retired farmer · Nov 26, 2013

Did you use brake cleaner to get the oil off the drums and have the drums turned? They are probably glazed over.

ShadetreeRet · Nov 26, 2013

Sam, that is a great idea about the brake controls!
Over here, we call it "Yankee ingenuity", what do you folks call it, "Luck o' the Irish"?

samn40 · Nov 27, 2013

Shadetree.....We just call it necessity....the mother of all inventions!
LOL.....Sam
PS You should come to Ireland, especially the wild west to see why farmers should never be allowed to buy a welder!

Steve@Advance · Nov 27, 2013

Have you pulled the drums off and taken a look at what is going on in there? Now that they have been run in, take a look at the wear patterns on the shoes. Possibly they are not the correct thickness, causing only the ends or middle to contact the drum. Back in the day... some shops offered "arc grinding" of the shoes to correct this. Good luck finding a shop that still does that though. Maybe block sand them with 50 grit till they fit better. While the drums are off, take a look at the cam and linkage, make sure nothing is binding or interfering with the linkage or pedal, look for residual oil to have gotten back on the shoes... Just some ideas.

Don Hooks · Nov 27, 2013

Thank you all for the replies and suggestions. I had gotten a little too focused on an exotic fix and hadn"t considered further options with the original set-up. I believe the issue - whatever it is - affects both wheels equally because she stops straight. I will pull a wheel in the next couple of weeks and assess the condition of the shoes and drum and go from there. I will post a summary of what it takes to optimize the system.

Don

Tracy Brown · Nov 27, 2013

When you pull a drum off to check it, pull a shoe also and lay it inside the drum to see how close the diameters are. The shoe needs to contact the drum all the way around to give the best brakes. I suspect you will find only partial contact which will result in poor brakes.

John(UK) · Dec 1, 2013

Have you got the springs fitted correctly. one spring on each side is stronger than the other and they are colored for this. The Brakes when the springs are fitted correctly are self-energizing, that means when the first shoe touches the Drum and starts to grip it, it pulls the second shoe into contact with the Drum. If the Drums are badly worn, they maybe too large a diameter for the shoes to grip all over the friction lining, they used to supply thicker linings because of this. John(UK) [email protected]

Brakes - can this be done?

Don Hooks

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Richard L

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ShadetreeRet

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samn40

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Jason S.

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Don Hooks

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Don Hooks

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Jason S.

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Duner Wi

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Don Hooks

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Jason S.

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retired farmer

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ShadetreeRet

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samn40

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Steve@Advance

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Don Hooks

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Tracy Brown

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John(UK)

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