Author	[Modern View]
HillsOfTN 10-30-2012 04:27:26 98.87.31.233 Report to Moderator	I am rebuilding a To20 that has a badly cracked block. I have a replacement block from an early TE20 and it doesn"t have the timing hole. Is there any downside to just drilling one and then adding my own timing marks to match the ones on my other To20? (Which will also provide me with the proper location of the timing hole.) [Reply]   [No Email]
PackardV8 10-31-2012 07:45:45 205.188.116.19 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to HillsOfTN, 10-30-2012 04:27:26   HillsofTn. Send me an email. Packard56V8@wmconnect.com.   [Reply]  [No Email]
PackardV8 10-30-2012 19:26:38 205.188.116.19 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to HillsOfTN, 10-30-2012 04:27:26   Quote: "100% To20 except for the replaced block and, therefore, does not have the timing marks on the pully and timing cover" My To20 has the timing COVER marks. Looks like two cast-in triangles. It also has the hole in block under starter and the flywheel marks. I have never checked to see if the pulley is notched or not. I've always timed this TO20 with a lite or static thru the hole. My TE20 has the timing COVER marks (like two cast-in triangles) but has a front pulley with NO notch. Also odd about the front pulley is that it has 4 holes for a puller tool. A very large flat headed screw instead of a bolt holding it onto the crank shaft. THe large screw is slotted for a standard blade type screw driver. NO ratchet for a hand crank,. The hole thru the front axle pivot does not line up with the center of the engine crank shaft. I've not tried setting th e timing on the TE20 yet.   [Reply]  [No Email]
PackardV8 10-30-2012 19:17:30 205.188.116.19 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to HillsOfTN, 10-30-2012 04:27:26   HillsofTn. I'm 30 miles west of Nashville. Where are u???   [Reply]  [No Email]
HillsOfTN 10-31-2012 05:57:49 98.87.125.21 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to PackardV8, 10-30-2012 19:17:30   Pretty dang close! About 25 miles west of Nashville.   [Reply]  [No Email]
HillsOfTN 10-30-2012 18:18:46 74.179.46.138 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to HillsOfTN, 10-30-2012 04:27:26   Thanks for all the info! I guess I should have been more specific. The TE20 block is a z120 block, not a Standard block. I am very familiar with timing a TE20 tractor, since I have one of those also. However, the tractor I am rebuilding is 100% To20 except for the replaced block and, therefore, does not have the timing marks on the pully and timing cover. It does have the regular To20 flywheel with the timing numbers cast into it. It just sounded sensible to bore the hole to see those numbers and add the necessary timing marks on the outside. One thing I have learned (the hard way, as usual) is that the word "sensible" in dealing with tractors is sometimes the wrong thing to say!   [Reply]  [No Email]
PackardV8 10-30-2012 10:31:22 205.188.116.19 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to HillsOfTN, 10-30-2012 04:27:26   From a post from above Richard L recommended viewing: http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ferg&th=1068 ***EDIT: fixed following statement to reflect correct screen name as just "John". **** Here is a very useful quote made by John from that thread for all TE owners: ---------------------------------------- * Ignition Timing Marks:* Quoting from a book by Tracprez: - Continental engines (TE20) before tractor serial 36152 have a line on the crankshaft pulley, which lines up with a mark on the timing gear cover, at TDC. If there is no mark on crankshaft pulley, remove the starter motor and find two punch marks on flywheel housing in starter orifice, these will mate with 2 marks on flywheel at TDC. After s/n 36151 there is a flywheel inspection cover on the ignition side of the engine, when cover is removed a TDC mark and single degree line can be lined up against a pointer exposed in the inspection hole; note inlet valve opens, ie tappet clearance is taken up, at TDC. -------------------------------------------------------- This post was edited by PackardV8 at 12:32:44 10/30/12.   [Reply]  [No Email]
John(UK) 10-31-2012 10:05:47 79.76.241.169 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to PackardV8, 10-30-2012 10:31:22   Yes that was from me, I had forgotten about that second type of timing mark, you don't often come across them, if they had done them all like that it would be so much easier. I just looked it up in the Service manual because when I read this bells started to ring in my head...John(UK)   [Reply]  [No Email]
Richard L 10-30-2012 11:13:00 71.90.139.15 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to PackardV8, 10-30-2012 10:31:22   I am not saying that is the same John it does not say John (UK) it just says John.   [Reply]  [No Email]
PackardV8 10-30-2012 08:40:10 205.188.116.19 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to HillsOfTN, 10-30-2012 04:27:26   See this thread: http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=955998&sid=17554f3c2da5aca6f06ecb92d4f04c03 especialy post: Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:55 am About 2/3 the way down the thread. Apparently the TE20's used miscellaneous methods of timing.   [Reply]  [No Email]
PackardV8 10-30-2012 08:32:09 205.188.116.19 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to HillsOfTN, 10-30-2012 04:27:26   I am currently in the same situation as HillsofTN. I have a TE20 with Z120 Cont engine. IT has NO timing hole in the block apron under the starter. BUT it DOES have flywheel timing marks identcal to my other tractor a TO20 with Z120 engine. I need to research a little further on this but my plan is to NOT drill the block. Plan is to count starter ring gear teeth on the TO20 and then re-mark the TE20 flywheel. That way i can time with a timing lite by removing the lower sheet metal flywheel cover. However all of this raises a question: Can a TO20 Z120 flywheel withfactory timing marks on flywheel be placed on a TE20 Z120 engine. THen drill the TE20 block for a timing hole and have all of it line up just fine for timing????? As i understand the John(UK) explanation above the answer to that question is No???   [Reply]  [No Email]
Tony in Mass. 10-30-2012 07:06:02 76.127.225.182 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to HillsOfTN, 10-30-2012 04:27:26   Ummmm...aghhhhh.... You have the inards of a Cont z120, but the block from a Standard? I am just thinking about the location of the dist etc. You better lay everything out to compare dimensions etc.... better talk to John UK and 2 (actually 7) tractors about this...   [Reply]  [No Email]
Jeff-oh 10-30-2012 08:06:11 69.174.58.124 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to Tony in Mass., 10-30-2012 07:06:02   He says he has the block of a TE20... That would be a Cont. Z120 also. The Standard motor would be a TEA-20.   [Reply]  [No Email]
Tony in Mass. 10-30-2012 08:34:14 76.127.225.182 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to Jeff-oh, 10-30-2012 08:06:11   ohhhhh. This is like the baby seat commercial! I don't think I knew that... nope, I know I didn't know that... So the one I helped the archery club with last year was a TEA? Should have brought my camera...   [Reply]  [No Email]
Jeff-oh 10-30-2012 11:26:22 69.174.58.124 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to Tony in Mass., 10-30-2012 08:34:14   That said, I am assuming that the orginal post was correct. John made a comment below that perhaps there was still a timing difference in the TE-20 Lucus Electronics vs. the TO-20"s with AC Delco electronics. I would thing the pistons could care less about what delevered the spark so long as it got there at the right time. That said I can perceive a differece between the Lucus & AC/D distributors in how they internally advance the timing. And thus the timing would be a little different.   [Reply]  [No Email]
John(UK) 10-30-2012 06:41:17 79.76.245.220 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to HillsOfTN, 10-30-2012 04:27:26   The Timing Marks on a TE20 Engine are on the Timing Cover and the marks are cast into the cover.   [Reply]  [No Email]
Trac 10-30-2012 10:43:50 76.6.55.158 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to John(UK), 10-30-2012 06:41:17   Always learning something new.   [Reply]  [No Email]
John(UK) 10-31-2012 04:08:25 79.76.241.169 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to Trac, 10-30-2012 10:43:50   AS you say, always something new to learn, I know I can still learn something most days. Only problem with the markings is that they are difficult to see and you do need to alter them a little higher up, this can be done. The reason that they are there,is the Z120 that they used was just a stock Engine that was also used on a lot of other machinery and the markings were visible, the Z120 in the TE20 tractor was an earlier version of the ones used in the TO20. The TE20 had been in production for a year or more before the TO20 came into production and by that time they had changed the markings. There were 48,000 engines of the earlier type and only then did they change to the later type and they used that on special order tractors until 1951 when all TE20's and TO20's stopped, when they changed to the TO30 and the TE20/85..John(UK)...fergusontractors@hotmail.com   [Reply]  [No Email]
Trac 10-30-2012 05:57:12 76.6.55.158 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to HillsOfTN, 10-30-2012 04:27:26   Yeah John UK told me how to time my TEA i did not have the timing marks i'm sure its still in my email i'll try and send it to you if you would like. As far as drilling a hole it won't work theres a slide type mark in the hole that lines up with the marks flywheel. Wait just thought about it take starter off look in that hole for the grooved timing mark that must be it.   [Reply]  [No Email]
John(UK) 10-30-2012 06:34:04 79.76.245.220 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to Trac, 10-30-2012 05:57:12   It wont work as the timing is different on these two engines...John(UK)   [Reply]  [No Email]
Jeff-oh 10-30-2012 08:11:04 69.174.58.124 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to John(UK), 10-30-2012 06:34:04   John, Just to make sure my understanding is clear. The timing of the TEA-20 Std. motor and the TO-20 Cont. Motor would be different for sure. Are you also saying the Timing of the TE-20 Cont. Z120 motor and the TO-20 Cont. Z120 is also different? Not sure what would cause that other than the Lucus Distributor. You are constantly point out new information for me... Thank you.   [Reply]  [No Email]
John(UK) 10-31-2012 05:15:56 79.76.241.169 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to Jeff-oh, 10-30-2012 08:11:04   It is the Lucas Distributor that would cause the difference with the ignition timing, if you used a Delco Distributor on a TE20 as used in a TO20 then you set the timing the same as the TO20.(i.e. 7 deg + or - 2 degrees BTC), you should have the engine running at 400rpm to check this with a timing light. If you set it with the engine running faster than 400rpm it will be doing it with the Distributor partially advanced, at 400rpm it is at zero advance.John(UK)   [Reply]  [No Email]
Richard L 10-30-2012 05:09:24 71.90.139.15 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to HillsOfTN, 10-30-2012 04:27:26   hopefully this will link you to what I found in the ARCHIVES as that is a good place to look for most questions. Look at the the posts by John it explains where the timing marks are. http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ferg&th=1068   [Reply]  [No Email]
maxwell99 10-30-2012 04:52:16 208.66.244.245 Report to Moderator	Re: Timing sight hole in reply to HillsOfTN, 10-30-2012 04:27:26   i see no problem in drilling the new hole. question: how did they time the engine on the motor with the new to you block. they must have had a way to do it, if you figure that out, just time the motor the way they did it and you would not have to drill the new hole. bet someone on the forum knows how they did it.   [Reply]  [No Email]