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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

electronic ignition

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Al Clark

10-28-2012 22:36:44




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Hi Folks,
I've been running a pertronix ignition on my tea20 for a couple of years. Now the tractor misses on the number four cylinder after it warms up in fifteen minutes or so. I know it misses because I put the time light on that wire and it's either erratic or not firing at all. All the others are good. What's goin' on? Thanks for any help.
Al




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Randyr

11-07-2012 19:49:31




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 Re: electronic ignition in reply to Al Clark, 10-28-2012 22:36:44  
About the shaft play, the only cure is new shaft bushings, or cam bearings, but it is more common to be the shaft bushings.
You could take the distributor to a rebuilder and get it done, or if you know a machinist you could get them made.
Or you could just buy a new distributor.
There is a screw in plug on the bottom of the top section where you can inject some oil.



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JMOR

10-30-2012 08:28:25




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 Re: electronic ignition in reply to 2tractors, 10-28-2012 22:36:44  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeThat "twisting" is a bad idea! That destroys the alignment between the magnet triggered firing & the position of the rotor. No wonder you have problems.

It may be firing when rotor is 1/2" away from a post in cap???



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Jerry/MT

10-29-2012 20:42:00




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 Re: electronic ignition in reply to Al Clark, 10-28-2012 22:36:44  
A worn thrust plate on the cam shaft can allow excessive fore and aft movement of the camshaft which will make the distributor shaft move up and down and that, together with worn distributor bushings can cause a wobbly up and down motion that can damage the rotor and the cap.



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PackardV8

10-29-2012 17:32:29




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 Re: electronic ignition in reply to Al Clark, 10-28-2012 22:36:44  
Quote:

"Distributor cap contacts look rough, particularly
the one for #4. It also apparently moves up and
down a quarter of an inch because the wear on all
the is about that long.
the cap and rotor are fairly new. I"d say much
less than 100 hours on them"

I don't know what u mean by "contacts look rough". If that means buring or as if it was ground on with a file.
If as ground on with a file and not burned then cheque the rotor button. My recently acquired TE-20 has what appears to be a new cap and rotor. BUT the rotor contact is way too long and hitting the contacts in the cap. I filed the rotor buttom contact down about 1/8". It was way too long and i am amazed it did not break the rotor or the cap but it didn't. The shaft in my distributor is probably worn .005 or more. But it starts just fine and runs what little bit i have ran it just back and forth to garage.

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Al Clark

10-29-2012 18:22:40




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 Re: electronic ignition in reply to PackardV8, 10-29-2012 17:32:29  
Thanks V8, I'll check the rotor and cap again.. I think I have to use e ignition now because of the uneven dist lobe. Can't time that right. One thing I havent mentioned is the ring that holds the mags for the e ignition is to big for the dist lobes, or rather the lobes are too worn for it. The last time I put it on I twisted it Maybe almost 90 degrees so that it would stick. Maybe twisted so much the rotor can't connect with #4 contact. I'll try to use some kind of shims to make that fit better

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PackardV8

10-29-2012 17:24:56




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 Re: electronic ignition in reply to Al Clark, 10-28-2012 22:36:44  
THe 0.005" slop in the distributor shaft is probably mariginal at the high end of service wear. Maybe check the SM for specs.

However, since it has e-Ignition and i therefore assume NO points then the distributor shaft slop should not be an issue relative to lack of fire to #4. If it is of the type of e-Igintion that does retain the points then yes the shaft slop can be an issue.

If no points, then your problem ought to be easily corrected with a new cap and maybe new rotor.

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JMOR

10-29-2012 11:43:59




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 Re: electronic ignition in reply to Jeff-oh, 10-28-2012 22:36:44  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeWell, Al, since EI is such a lightening rod, you shouldn't have mentioned it as so many responses have nothing to do with helping you with your problem. I say, forget that you have EI, as if it is firing 3 cylinders alright, it is also producing the same output for the 4th cylinder........so, the problem is between the coil output & the plug or the plug itself, or you have mis-diagnosed the problem & it isn't ignition. I would do a compression test if I were working on it. Yes, I read what you said about the timing light.

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Al Clark

10-29-2012 12:14:31




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 Re: electronic ignition in reply to JMOR, 10-29-2012 11:43:59  
JMOR, See below, my distributor contacts are chewed up,expecially #4. The distributor shaft has excessive play. The #4 cylinder fires erratically. I think the distributor is the problem.



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PackardV8

10-29-2012 11:09:04




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 Re: electronic ignition in reply to Al Clark, 10-28-2012 22:36:44  
To the best of my knowledge ANY e-ignition (i don't care who,what,where nor when it is made) system requires MINIMUM 5.2 volts. IF 6v system then e-ignition has only about a 15% saftety margin. With 12v about 65% saftety margin. If e-ignition module or parts go bad then how much does it cost to have spare parts onboard????? A set of spare points/coil condensor???? About $30. Just something to think about.

It amazes me that so many are trying to convert to e-ignition. I've got or am involved with modern cars requireing as high as $700 computers that have gone bad and wer're try to convert them to points ignition. OTherwise we go to parts store buy some piece of garbage aftermarket ignition computer ECM made in some 3rd world country we never heard of for an outragous price and it only lasts for 6 months.
That's how it is the real world explained in plain english. And that's that..

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jjinga

10-29-2012 06:30:13




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 Re: electronic ignition in reply to Al Clark, 10-28-2012 22:36:44  
Have you removed and examined the tip of the spark plug?



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PackardV8

10-29-2012 05:30:43




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 Re: electronic ignition in reply to Al Clark, 10-28-2012 22:36:44  
Just out of curisosity is the tractor still 6v or is it 12volt????

Not sparking on one cyclinder consistenet with your diagnosis would point to a bad distributor cap or rotor. Possible worn distributor shaft bushings. I'd try a new cap and rotor first.

Edit: Since it has e-ignition then worn distributir bushings would not lilely cause the problem.
This post was edited by PackardV8 at 06:07:02 10/29/12.

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Al Clark

10-29-2012 11:42:58




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 Re: electronic ignition in reply to PackardV8, 10-29-2012 05:30:43  
It's a 12 volt system. I switched spark plugs and wires, #3 and #4 cylinders, still erratic on #4. So wires and plugs seem ok.
I think the problem is with shaft play which I just measured at 0.005" or more.

Distributor cap contacts look rough, particularly the one for #4. It also apparently moves up and down a quarter of an inch because the wear on all the is about that long.

the cap and rotor are fairly new. I"d say much less than 100 hours on them.

I understand this distributor, which I think is original has a bushing at the bottom of the shaft and a ball bearing at the top.

I put the electronic ignition in because I was getting two spark plugs firing and two not because of unequal opening and of the points. In other words, I couldn"t the timing right. It solved that problem, but still needs good bearings and shaft to distribute the spark effectively without chewing up the rotor and cap contacts.

I know I can buy aftermarket distributors. Where can I get mine rebuilt and how much would that be?

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JMOR

10-28-2012 23:41:35




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 Re: electronic ignition in reply to Hopsing, 10-28-2012 22:36:44  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeI isn't the EI. Check, wire, distributor cap, plug, etc.



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Al Clark

10-29-2012 00:04:58




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 Re: electronic ignition in reply to JMOR, 10-28-2012 23:41:35  
Must be the distributor then. I switched spark plugs and wires with number 3 but it still misses on number 4.



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Jason S.

10-29-2012 06:07:27




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 Re: electronic ignition in reply to Al Clark, 10-29-2012 00:04:58  
I have used the Pertronix in some vehicles and they will go bad. Most people I know carry their points with them in case they get stranded and need to get it running and get home. Im not saying that is definately your problem but I am saying from experience they will go out.



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Randy Roberson

10-29-2012 09:49:16




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 Re: electronic ignition in reply to Jason S., 10-29-2012 06:07:27  
I thought about the Pertronix, but somehow I like the simplicity of the old points, and they can be repaired with almost nothing in case of a breakdown. The Pertronix hobbyists tell me they carry a spare unit in the glove compartment, and sometimes they need the spare. Some will like the points, and some can't wait to get rid of them. Whatever makes you happy, but I'm keeping my points.



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