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Discussion Forum
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Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down..

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PackardV8

10-12-2012 08:48:11
64.12.116.19



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[quote="Jason S."](quoted from post at 07:51:14 10/12/12)...d find brand new brake shoes on it, although oil soaked. Pull the axles and find sure seals already on it. "

U fail to mention whether or not there was an OUTSIDE seal. Someone correct me if iam wrong but the Sure Seal is NOT factory seal. No such INTERNAL seal was used by the factory. ONly an EXTernal seal used by factory.
So if there is no external seal or it is bad then any grease packed into the bearing worked it's way out. BUT, u indicated "oil" soaked linings not grease soaked linings.
So form your description as written it sounds like Sure seal failed AND OEM OUTER seal failed too or was nonexistent.
This post was edited by PackardV8 at 08:50:04 10/12/12.

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John(UK)

10-13-2012 03:16:43
79.76.250.51



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 Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. in reply to PackardV8, 10-12-2012 08:48:11  
Sure seals were never used on production.
TO20 and TE20's only had one outer seal. TO30 and later TE20's after 1953 had an inner and outer seal fitted from new. No gaskets fitted is a common mistake and often only one gasket has been fitted when it has been repaired. You need to fit the shims next to the Trumpet Housing and then a gasket, then the Brake Back Plate, then a gasket, next is the Bearing Hub. Either seals can show up as failed due to overfilling the Transmission and this happens a lot..John(UIK)...fergusontractors@hotmail.com

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Harry O'Neal

10-15-2012 08:19:23
24.98.223.252



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 Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. in reply to John(UK), 10-13-2012 03:16:43  
Hi John I'm having the same problem with my TO-20 1951 Harry Furguson an I was wondering if you new where I could get a diagram of how to fix this problem. I am not as smart as I thought I was .I have it tore down but I;m not sure if I'm doing right .I would appreachiate any help .



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John(UK)

10-15-2012 09:20:16
79.76.241.213



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 Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. in reply to Harry O'Neal, 10-15-2012 08:19:23  
If you email me direct at the address below and then I can get your email address from that. I will send you the information....tell me what you have done so far...John(UK)...fergusontractors@hotmail.com



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Jason S.

10-13-2012 06:13:08
174.254.147.67



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 Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. in reply to John(UK), 10-13-2012 03:16:43  
I got it taken care of...she finally has brakes again. Although I did cheat and reuse the new brake shoes that were on it. I heated them up and got the oil out of them. Yes I know I should have gotten a new set...but I"m off work right now so I just have to do the best I can with what I have. I read on here where John(UK) had said that when they used silicone instead of the paper gaskets on the backing plate you could not get a proper torque on the studs because of the silicone giving. After working on mine I can say that"s true because none of the studs were tight at all.

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John(UK)

10-13-2012 09:13:56
79.76.245.156



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 Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. in reply to Jason S., 10-13-2012 06:13:08  
I think that you may find that when the Brakes heat up any oil left in the linings will come up to the surface and you will have a lack of brakes again. This has been tried many times before and everyone thought they had managed to get the oil out of the linings by using various methods and solvents etc, but we never had one that didn't fail. If you really MUST use sealant on the gaskets, you need to use some very thin sealant, that would squash out easier than silicone and would not alter the thickness of the gaskets as that would alter the end float. The problem is with using that, if you have to repair it at any time, then it takes an awful lot of cleaning to get it off...John(UK)..fergusontractors@hotmail.com

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Jason S.

10-13-2012 18:19:05
174.254.145.157



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 Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. in reply to John(UK), 10-13-2012 09:13:56  
I did not use any sealant. Just a thin smear of grease to hold the gaskets in place until I got the axle back in. I will get another set of brake shoes in a few weeks. I go back to work after next week, but I needed my tractor to rake hay is why I heated them with a torch and reused them. It"s not the only tractor I"ve got that needs brakes. My MF 175 needs them to but I"m thinking i will do the wet brake conversion on it. You are lucky on that side of the pond that you got the later 100 series with wet brakes...we didn"t get them on this side.

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John(UK)

10-14-2012 04:15:31
79.76.243.14



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 Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. in reply to Jason S., 10-13-2012 18:19:05  
Well that makes a change for us to get something that you didn't, we always feel like the poor relations...lol. Grease is fine on gaskets, it's just sealant that can cause problems. With the disk brakes, always adjust them when they are hot because everything expands.Leave plenty of free play.2.5", can't be sure on that but I think it was. John(UK)...fergusontractors@hotmail.com



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Jason S.

10-14-2012 05:01:40
174.228.73.20



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 Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. in reply to John(UK), 10-14-2012 04:15:31  
I have to admit when I watch some of those old Ferguson and Massey Ferguson films that I have, I get jealous sometimes. We didn"t get wet brakes til later in the 200 series, and you got the TED20"s and such. I have never seen one in person. I imagine there are some here in the US but they must have been brought over.



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John(UK)

10-14-2012 12:10:21
79.76.243.14



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 Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. in reply to Jason S., 10-14-2012 05:01:40  
I only have had dealings with one in the USA, I think there may be a couple in Canada too, but they are few and far between because of the shortage of fuel for them. Kerosene was not really suitable, to burn that you needed a Zero octane engine, Ferguson did have them but they nearly all went to hot climates. They must have made a TO version of the TED and it was called the TOD, but no-one I know has ever seen one.I have a list for the parts that are different to the gas tractor, but its only the engine that is different..John(UK)..fergusontractors@hotmail.com

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Jason S.

10-12-2012 09:17:37
174.252.147.3



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 Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. in reply to PackardV8, 10-12-2012 08:48:11  
I know they are not the factory seal... I was just saying somebody before me put them in there and they had failed. So yes both seals had failed. I just got back from the MF dealer with the backing plate gaskets so now it"s time to put it all back together...properly.



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