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Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

Is it a Fergy and what Model?

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Bob (Aust)

09-26-2012 21:45:11




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This photo of Douglas DC6B VH-INH was taken at Adelaide, South Australia. The aircraft was operated by TAA from February 26, 1960 to August 29, 1966 so the photo was taken in that period.



The tractor appears to be a Ferguson TEA20 or TEF20 but the seat confuses me. It appears to be in TAA blue and white colour scheme.
I am intrigued as I don't recall our domestic airlines operating Ferguson tractors?

Can any one confirm a Ferguson and possible model?

Thanks

Bob in Oz

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Bob (Aust)

10-01-2012 02:57:12




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to Bob (Aust), 09-26-2012 21:45:11  
John. What is an MF25? According to TractorData: "The Massey Ferguson 825 is the designation for the version of the model 25 built in France."

Manufacturer: Massey Ferguson

Factory: Beauvais, France

Manufactured: 1963 - 1965

Original price (USD): $2,545 (1965)

Massey Ferguson 25 Engine: Perkins 1.8L 4-cyl diesel
I take it the MF25 was produced much later than the TE/TEA series tractors?

Bob in Oz
This post was edited by Bob (Aust) at 02:59:05 10/01/12.

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Bob (Aust)

09-28-2012 12:09:20




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to Bob (Aust), 09-26-2012 21:45:11  
Hi John.
The consensus of opinion amongst the Aussie Fergy fraternity is that officially all Ferguson/MF tractors imported to Australia started life in Banner Lane, commencing from the TEA. The few now rare Ford-Fergusons were war time imports and a couple of TO series have been imported by collectors. I think that eliminates the MF25.

Bob
This post was edited by Bob (Aust) at 12:10:57 09/28/12.

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Samn40

09-28-2012 16:57:58




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to Bob (Aust), 09-28-2012 12:09:20  
Bob, when I blow the picture up on my screen, I can see clearly that it is indeed an MF25. The engine subframe is clear as is the top link and lift arms and the dash etc. I don't know how it got to Oz, maybe the plane company flew it in but I have no doubt but that it is the same as a 25 tractor I own. Sam



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John(UK)

09-28-2012 06:18:25




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to Bob (Aust), 09-26-2012 21:45:11  
Not TEA as it has a straight front axle, the seat is similar to a 35 but with extensions to raise the backrest which was quite common. These seats were used on other tractors too. It does look like an Allis-Chalmers ED40 or similar, I don't know if you had these in Australia but that has a straight axle. ..John(UK)



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Bob (Aust)

09-27-2012 19:11:27




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to Bob (Aust), 09-26-2012 21:45:11  
Well, that has been an interesting sleuthing exercise.......

Regarding this photo:



Of the 8 Douglas DC-4s that served with TAA we can eliminate VH-TAE, TAF & TAG which were delivered 64-65 as freighters. The first VH-TAC was sold in 1948 which leaves VH-TAA, TAB, TAC (#2) and TAD. TAD was sold in 1959 and VH-TAA, TAB & TAC (#2) were converted to freighters in 59/60.

The DC4 in the photo hasn't had the freighter conversion as there is no internal liner to protect the windows.

So, my guess the photo was taken circa 1958, which allowing for shipping time from Banner Lane to Australia, makes the tractor serial number somewhere between 1001 and 79552! :lol:
The green and white roundel on the left rear guard indicates that an approved spark arrestor is fitted, although why they would leave the upswept exhaust around aircraft is beyond belief.

Bob in Oz
This post was edited by Bob (Aust) at 19:14:37 09/27/12 2 times.

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John(UK)

09-28-2012 06:23:02




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to Bob (Aust), 09-27-2012 19:11:27  
First Red and Grey tractors were made mid to late 1957...from serial 74656...John(UK)



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Tony in Mass.

09-27-2012 18:58:43




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to Bob (Aust), 09-26-2012 21:45:11  

Quite awhile ago. maybe 2 years now, someone on another forum post a pic of 2 Ford Ferguson 9N's I suppose, with dualies, both on the edge of Pearl Harbor Bay, the drivers watching the USS Hornet return from launching Dolittle's bombers. That would be a nice tug snapshot for your collection.
I am too modest to accept anything but cigars and Carling black label Sam. To be unusually honest, I was thinking the colour view was a UK 50, the lower B&W pic... well the 25 I saw in the shop a couple weeks ago was fresh in my brain...!!!! where's the pics I took??

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samn40

09-27-2012 17:15:47




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to Bob (Aust), 09-26-2012 21:45:11  

Bob if you are looking for tractors in Aviation you maybe need to look more than skin deep as both of the above tugs are built around Massey Ferguson 50 and 40 industrial tractors. Open the cab door and you will see the familiar 135 or 165 type dash and the torque converter foot pedal operated shuttle box.The companies that carried out the conversions were either Cameron Gardner or Millam. Sam

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Bob (Aust)

09-27-2012 13:04:29




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to Bob (Aust), 09-26-2012 21:45:11  
I am interested in aviation and interested in Ferguson tractors used for aviation purposes.



This photo is captioned "Massey Ferguson MF35 Tractors at RAAF Base, Australia, Circa 1960".

Interesting that the Royal Australian Air Force also operated Ferguson tractors.



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Bob (Aust)

09-27-2012 12:57:12




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to Bob (Aust), 09-26-2012 21:45:11  
Amazing if it is a French built MF25, but I think that is correct.
I was unaware any non British built Ferguson tractors came to Australia in the 1950s and 1960s.

What years were the MF25 built?



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richardinnz

09-28-2012 18:58:07




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to John(UK), 09-28-2012 06:39:22  
There are a few (but not many)French M-F tractors just accross the Tasman sea here in N.Z. so they were definatly sold outside of France. C.B. Norwood were the importers then, they now handle Case New Holland. A couple of months ago there was an ex Air New Zealand Ferguson, no hydraulics (coffin lid) advertised for sale locally here in Christchurch.



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John(UK)

09-29-2012 04:19:52




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to richardinnz, 09-28-2012 18:58:07  
Any French assembled tractors would be sold by MF UK as France did not sell any tractors outside France. The UK was responsible for sales in Europe/Africa/ Middle East & Australasia although I understand that has changed recently and Australia and New Zealand is part of the sales group that covers China and Asia generally, although I haven't been able to fully confirm this....John(UK)



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samn40

09-30-2012 12:30:17




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to John(UK), 09-29-2012 04:19:52  
John, The MF25 was sold in Ireland and America,Would those tractors have been sold through the UK? Sam



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John(UK)

10-01-2012 02:42:53




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to samn40, 09-30-2012 12:30:17  
Ireland would be sold through the UK, the USA handled its own sales. The MF25 was made in the USA as well as France with certain differences,(local content) so would the USA import French Tractors at that time, I wouldn't have thought so unless they had production shortages and then they would move them around, like they did with the TEA20, although the TO20/30 was being made in Detroit, they did send TEA's and earlier the TE20 when there was a shortage of home built tractors...John(UK)

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richardinnz

09-29-2012 05:04:30




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to John(UK), 09-29-2012 04:19:52  
That would sound about right, in those days to buy a tractor in N.Z. you had to have the money available in the currancy of the country that was supplying the tractor, NZ was then very closly tied to England, to get a TEA you needed sterling, also this put you in a position to get a Standard Vangaurd, or a Ford car if you brought a Fordson! To get a John Deere you needed US$ and so on. Also in those days implements had to have a certian percentage of N.Z. input, so a lot of Ferguson, I.H. and David Brown implements were made here to avoid tarriffs, or you had to buy a locally built Clough or Duncan plough, the remains of some of those old works have recently been unearthed during the wholesale demolition of central Christchurch after last years Quakes, quite interesting seeing old foundrys being exposed again, even old McCormick-Deering and Massey Harris advertising signs have been exposed. We are in the Asia/Pacific region for most manufacturers, with parts coming usually from Aussie or in the case of JCB, Singapore. If they haven"t got parts there then your off the road for 10 days! We actually find it faster to source MF parts from Canada.

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John(UK)

09-29-2012 09:17:38




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to richardinnz, 09-29-2012 05:04:30  
That was interesting about having to have the money to buy, in the currency of the country that you were buying from. That would really P*** anyone off if they had to do that every time.
I hear that JCB are building a new Plant in Singapore. We also have unearthed some old factories and foundations like you, they are building wherever they can.What you said about MF parts, it is possibly something to do with the re-organization I told you about earlier. The guy who is in charge now was in charge or second-in command of the Europe/Africa and Middle East before, so they are going to sort out these kind of things for you. It should make life easier. There are no small dealers now over here, they are all big ones who handle millions of pounds worth, it sort of loses something now it is like that. Have a Good Weekend....John(UK)

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samn40

09-27-2012 11:55:18




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to Bob (Aust), 09-26-2012 21:45:11  

Top marks to Tony ...he has got it right, must be something to do with the excitement of getting his standard working....a bit!!! It is indeed a Massey Ferguson 25 made in France. You will notice the large hub in the steering wheel and the crank on the steering drag link, The 'ornament' on the hood is in fact a chrome badge and mounting point which doubles as the air intake. Also note the risers on the seat backrest common to the 25 and 130. We; done Tony!!! Sam

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Inno

09-27-2012 08:06:18




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to Bob (Aust), 09-26-2012 21:45:11  
You still got that old Standard? Can't wait to read that!!!



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Tony in Mass.

09-27-2012 07:29:40




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to Bob (Aust), 09-26-2012 21:45:11  
Well, as I blow up the details, the one on top looks just like my F40, the other looks like a diesel 35, or the French 25 I posted a couple weeks ago, btw, the top one not only matches the colour of the airplane, but an F40 from the factory, so that might have saved someone some money?



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Tony in Mass.

09-27-2012 07:43:50




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to Tony in Mass., 09-27-2012 07:29:40  
OK, never mind. Axle ,seat and dash look 40 and 50. The hood orniment might be the jet on the MHF50's, and that makes more sense if Oz was still obigated to buy pommie made goods in those years? I still say the other is a 35 with sealed exhaust, or French 25, which negates the pommie programme?...so I am still confused
Stay tuned for a Standard diesel saga report.... interesting things happened last evening.... not exactly roaring to life, but trying to crawl out of its grave???
And I appoligize that I can't post a pic of the 50's little jet, miserable hornets are living under the 50's tarp, there are only certain things I will do bravely for the fergie world.... that ain't one of them...

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Bob (Aust)

09-27-2012 02:53:13




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to Bob (Aust), 09-26-2012 21:45:11  
I'm inrigued by whatever is on the hood/bonnet but I love the rear view mirror!
I can't see the front axle radius rods but there appears to be a pipe (?) along the engine, above axle height?

The aircraft in the black and white photo above is a Douglas DC4, dating the photo before the early 1960s.
This post was edited by Bob (Aust) at 03:41:04 09/27/12.



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tractorsam

09-27-2012 02:36:34




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to Bob (Aust), 09-26-2012 21:45:11  
Not sure but I think it's either an MF-30 or MF-50 of either French or North American origins.

I don't think it's a TE because of the straight front axle and steering drag link down the side. General shape and size has me leaning towards an MF-30. Along with the position of the headlights and some form of hood ornament. Sam



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Bob (Aust)

09-27-2012 02:03:43




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to Bob (Aust), 09-26-2012 21:45:11  
Now, that is interesting! I've seen agricultural tractors on airports fitted with grass tires but never the original lumpy farm tyres.



Later MF diesel tractors were used on airports as you've discovered. I used my TEA20 on Coolangatta airport for a short time around 1990 to pull a fueling trailer, but only after expensive sealing of the ignition and earthing all parts of the tractor to the civil aviation authorities satisfaction.

I think the photo may be earlier than 1970. I need to identify the aircraft type to work out the year.

Bob

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Toora Stephen

09-27-2012 00:16:26




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 Re: Is it a Fergy and what Model? in reply to Bob (Aust), 09-26-2012 21:45:11  
I can't tell from that pic, but this one is a MF...

http://museumvictoria.com.au/collections/items/1486662/photograph-taa-loading-cargo-onto-aircraft-circa-1970

- TS
This post was edited by Toora Stephen at 00:17:05 09/27/12.

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