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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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position control...chains??

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mr chapp

06-23-2004 06:16:49




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Hi all...put the shaft on the bush hog, went to try it out, and now I see what the complaint is about position control. Since most of my work will be with a bush hog, scraper blade, or harrow, I wonder if limiter chains might be the best option for me. Where do they attach? My guess would be on either side of the differential to the front of the mower. Any suggestions will help. Thanks in advance Mike.

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Tom H.

06-26-2004 13:19:58




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 Re: position control...chains?? in reply to mr chapp, 06-23-2004 06:16:49  
I just bought a set of limiter chains and a longer toplink pin to fit the upper attachment pieces to. This should fix the problem with drift down and of course set your tailwheel height when you set up the chains.

Goodluck

The last re: had a great refference to Ed Gooding and limiter chains, with a very good picture of the settup. Just image google Ed Gooding and Limiter chains and it will take you there.

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marlowe

06-23-2004 16:01:09




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 Re: position control...chains?? in reply to mr chapp, 06-23-2004 06:16:49  
dear mister chapp. i have sold and serviced hogs for years and see this all the time. PLEASE don't take this wrong but it's a real common mistake that they are not beening mounted right.i know what your thinking how hard is it to put a hog on a tractor and go cut some grass? but!! your hog has a tail wheel right? your tractor has 2 lower lift arms right? set your hog on a 4x4 so it is level lower your tail wheel so it's on the ground. now put your tractor on but[[[[ DON'T]]] hook up the PTO with tractor running put the 3pt. control lever in the middle of the range and turn your top link so it will get longer and you will feel you 3pt. raise just a little and the stop but when you make the top link long it will raise a little more that because the control piston under the set is being pushed in and that makes you 3pt. lift untill the pressure is releasted.with a little fine tuning and a little setting of the tail wheel up or down for the height of cut you want your hog will cut at the height you want. if you have ANY questions call me i will help you set it right 1-920-446-3296 your hog should not be hanging on the tractor when your cutting but rideing on the tail wheel and the 3pt. at a set height and that is controled by your top link. good luck and if you need help call

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Jeff-oh

06-24-2004 05:01:56




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 Re: Re: position control...chains?? in reply to marlowe, 06-23-2004 16:01:09  
Marlow,

I read your post with great intrest. However, at least with my brand of rotory cutter, (international, of Bethel, Ohio) the top link is attached to a bracket that pivots aft. As the top-link is lengthened the pivot moves and allows the front edge of the mower to come up until the pivot bottoms out.

Thus, Height is set by shortening the top-link. If the lift is moved heigher that this bottoming out position the whole mower is lifter in the air.

With this design the depth control spring can never be put into compression.

I do agree with you that proper setting is 90% of the battle. I find that the mower will drift down over 10 min. or so and then have to be reset.

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marlowe

06-24-2004 09:35:24




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 Re: Re: Re: position control...chains?? in reply to Jeff-oh, 06-24-2004 05:01:56  
that is some of the trouble with hog that are not right for the tractor on fregusons you must have stiff top frame on the hog and one that don't have a sloted hole at the top. hogs are made to fit all tractors and most will work very well but some have just a little specail things that will make them work a lot better. had one in the shop on monday that the gay just got and bent the pto shaft on it the first time he used it just by lifting it. it was one with the sloted hole on top. i just filled the slot with a spacer so the top link would not move. new shaft and and repair time he was happy as kid with a new toy P.S. i did not sell or set up the hog he SAVED 85.00 by going to fleet farm but he then gave me 105.50 to fix it boy that was a real saveings

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Steve W (NY)

06-23-2004 13:26:08




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 Re: position control...chains?? in reply to mr chapp, 06-23-2004 06:16:49  
I have a 2N....no position control. I was one of the first guys to buy a Zane Thang....it works great. Limiter chains are annoying to hook up, and don't really allow you to easily raise and hold an implement. Some people say you shouldn't hang weight on the hydraulics full time....that is nonsense as well. We ran a 8N hogging with position control for the last 25 years back home without limiter chains....no problem.

There are other position control devices you can make or buy, but I've never tried them....I do know for around 80 bucks, Zane's rig workes great and takes 5 minutes to put on.

Good Luck
Take Care
Steve

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Jeff-oh

06-23-2004 13:46:29




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 Re: Re: position control...chains?? in reply to Steve W (NY), 06-23-2004 13:26:08  
As Steve, has brought this up.

If you want a position control you can make one for < $20 or so. The plans are in the Photo Archives and they can also be e-mailed to anyone who wants them. It is easy to make and works great.

Limiter chains are only a pain if you change you bush hog cutting height alot. They are less painful than changing the rear wheel height.

I the quick height change brakets are used, as described below, limiter chains are even easier to use.

Jeff- oh

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txblu

06-23-2004 10:38:16




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 Re: position control...chains?? in reply to mr chapp, 06-23-2004 06:16:49  
Not sure if you want chains to set the height of the front of the hog off the ground, or you are looking for something to stabilize the hog laterally.

Don't know what's at the web site but here's a couple of ideas.

Vertically can be 2 chains attached to the front of the hog and the tractor's 3rd member (the top connection of the 3 points). Sorta makes the letter A with the hog being the horiz bar in the A. Adjust chain links for height.

Horizontally can be either chains or bars. The bar attaches where the 3 pt attaches to the implement (same hole) and the other end to a similar pin under the fender, under the axle. Where the fender bolts are secured to the axle, this is a piece of angle iron (bracket) with holes in it running fore and aft. A pin is inserted in one of the holes (usually 4 holes) on the inside of the bracket that matches the length of the bar. Tractor Supply has the bars and pins; maybe the angle bracket too. You can do this to either or both sides.

The chain would extend from 2 (left and right)of the 4 bolts securing the PTO adapter bracket (to the tractor) to some point on the lift arm. It could be made tight enough to limit the horiz travel somewhat; not a lot. Since this is usually too tight to get the 3 pt off the implements pins (during mount/dismount), a quick release link needs to be included so that the chain can be dropped when it is desired to connect the implement and reconnected afterwards.

Mark

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mr chapp

06-23-2004 12:11:33




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 Re: Re: position control...chains?? in reply to txblu, 06-23-2004 10:38:16  
Already have the horizontal part. The problem I'm having is height only.



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txblu

06-23-2004 13:00:03




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 Re: Re: Re: position control...chains?? in reply to mr chapp, 06-23-2004 12:11:33  
I used to have a tractor that used a piece (2 ea)of stamped steel, bent at about a 30 degree angle that has a 3/4" hole in one end and a slit in the other.

The 3/4 went over a pin after sticking in 1 side of the 3rd member and another before you exit the other side of the 3rd member. Now I have 2 places to install chain links that can't move outwards because you're inside the 3rd member casting.

Merely slip the chain thru the slit and set to the desired length and presto, you're there. Adjustment is quick and easy if you want to change it.

Other end of chain(s) is attached to front of hog, as said previously A frame style using bolts and nuts.

If you can't find any, go to, or www an Allis Chalmers dealer and look at a parts list for a Model 5015 tractor. This is an 18 hp engine (15 hp PTO) small frame 3 cyl diesel that I once owned that had such a thing so it should be in the parts breakdown book. Otherwise make your own or go to a machine shop and get some made.

Mark

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Steve_ne

06-23-2004 07:14:29




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 Re: position control...chains?? in reply to mr chapp, 06-23-2004 06:16:49  
Do a google search on Ed Gooding and Limtier Chains. Thanks Ed for the images, Keep up the good work. The images have help me out many times.



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Paul (FLA)

06-23-2004 14:02:01




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 Re: Re: position control...chains?? in reply to Steve_ne, 06-23-2004 07:14:29  
I use height limiter chains, but there is a limit (no pun) to the height it will hold up the implement. Maybe I am using them wrong.
I put the slotted metal piece near the large spring, and I run the chain to the pins of the implement (bottom of 3 pt). I raise the implement as high as possible, and I take up as much slack on the chain. (using slotted piece) The implement will still go down to the ground, when I release the height lever.
It seems like the chain would limit more, if it were attached to the 3 pt arms closer to the tractor, instead of the pins on the implement. Does this make sense?

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