Farmall Liftall Parts

I have an H with the liftall attachment for a manure bucket. It has two lift cylinders (one on each side). The dust boots on the cylinder ends have been gone ever since I picked it up. I'm looking for some ideas on how to cover those cylinders to keep dirt and mainly water out of the cylinders. The cylinder seals are not completely water tight and I'm thinking rain water will run along the cylinders and seep into the system. Also, the liftall is held together with a series of pins that are 3/4" but have carriage bolt heads on one side. Anyone know where to get 3/4" carriage pins without threads? Thanks.

Happy Harry
 
Are they really carriage bolt heads or are they clevis pins? Fastenal has a variety of 3/4" clevis pins. Probably available at dealers and farm supply stores too.
 
(quoted from post at 04:57:16 08/07/15) I have an H with the liftall attachment for a manure bucket. It has two lift cylinders (one on each side). The dust boots on the cylinder ends have been gone ever since I picked it up. I'm looking for some ideas on how to cover those cylinders to keep dirt and mainly water out of the cylinders. The cylinder seals are not completely water tight and I'm thinking rain water will run along the cylinders and seep into the system. Also, the liftall is held together with a series of pins that are 3/4" but have carriage bolt heads on one side. Anyone know where to get 3/4" carriage pins without threads? Thanks.

Happy Harry

I think you are talking about either the McCormick #30 or #31 loader. Yes, those loaders did originally have leather dust boots that covered the entire cylinder shaft, but they didn't last very long. Apparently they were not all that necessary in the first place. I've owned a #31 for about 16 years now. Boots were gone when I bought it. My dad also had a #31 that he bought brand new in about 1950, and sold on his retirement auction in about 1995. It served him for more years without the boots than with them. In both cases, the cylinders have survived just fine for many, many years without those boots.
 
(quoted from post at 09:13:59 08/07/15) Get longer bolts and cut threads off.

That's what I was thinking, but so far, all I found had threads all the way thru. I'll keep searching.
 
(quoted from post at 11:33:10 08/07/15)
(quoted from post at 04:57:16 08/07/15) I have an H with the liftall attachment for a manure bucket. It has two lift cylinders (one on each side). The dust boots on the cylinder ends have been gone ever since I picked it up. I'm looking for some ideas on how to cover those cylinders to keep dirt and mainly water out of the cylinders. The cylinder seals are not completely water tight and I'm thinking rain water will run along the cylinders and seep into the system. Also, the liftall is held together with a series of pins that are 3/4" but have carriage bolt heads on one side. Anyone know where to get 3/4" carriage pins without threads? Thanks.

Happy Harry

I think you are talking about either the McCormick #30 or #31 loader. Yes, those loaders did originally have leather dust boots that covered the entire cylinder shaft, but they didn't last very long. Apparently they were not all that necessary in the first place. I've owned a #31 for about 16 years now. Boots were gone when I bought it. My dad also had a #31 that he bought brand new in about 1950, and sold on his retirement auction in about 1995. It served him for more years without the boots than with them. In both cases, the cylinders have survived just fine for many, many years without those boots.

That sounds about right. I remember seeing pieces of leather left on there. The cylinders work fine, but this past winter, water got into the hyraulics somehow. I know the cylinder end seals are worn because the rods will have a film of oil on them. That's the only place I can think of, where the water could get in there, beings that everything else sealed. When I drained the tank, I ended up with 3 extra quarts of milk oil. I might have had it a little over filled with oil, but there was a lot of water I'm guessing. I'm thinking some rubber boots would be cheaper than rebuilding the cylinders.
 

I drained the contaminated oil from the reservoir and filled it with 5 quarts of fresh 30w. I'm gonna run it a little and then drain it again. Hopefully that will be enough to get the majority of the water out of the system.
 

I'm also having the same contaminated oil issue with the tranny gear oil. I think that water is getting in thru the two axle seals. That is next on my agenda......whenever I can find the time. I really need a roof for this old horse.
 

When you park the tractor, always lower the bucket to the ground. That way the cylinders are also pointed down, with much less chance of water seeping into them. An ever present, light film of oil on the cylinder rods is desirable.
 

Can I ask.....I'm about to get my M finished and gonna be refilling my belly pump. Do I use hydro fluid or oil, and how do I know how much to put in? There is no dip stick, thanks, and sorry for ask question on your thread buddy.
 
(quoted from post at 15:10:54 08/07/15)
When you park the tractor, always lower the bucket to the ground. That way the cylinders are also pointed down, with much less chance of water seeping into them. An ever present, light film of oil on the cylinder rods is desirable.

You would think. When I have them lowered all the way down to the ground with no attachment on, the cylinders are level at best. With the bucket or snow plow attached and on the ground, they are still pointing slightly uphill; hence my problem.
 
(quoted from post at 07:57:07 08/08/15)
Can I ask.....I'm about to get my M finished and gonna be refilling my belly pump. Do I use hydro fluid or oil, and how do I know how much to put in? There is no dip stick, thanks, and sorry for ask question on your thread buddy.

I'm not sure if the M belly pump is the same as the H. The H takes straight 30w oil. When I drained and refilled, it took 5 quarts for it to fully extend my loader lift cylinders. Hope this helps.
 
(quoted from post at 07:57:07 08/08/15)
Can I ask.....I'm about to get my M finished and gonna be refilling my belly pump. Do I use hydro fluid or oil, and how do I know how much to put in? There is no dip stick, thanks, and sorry for ask question on your thread buddy.

I'm not sure if the M belly pump is the same as the H. The H takes straight 30w oil. When I drained and refilled, it took 5 quarts for it to fully extend my loader lift cylinders. Hope this helps.
 
(quoted from post at 06:21:48 08/10/15)
(quoted from post at 07:57:07 08/08/15)
Can I ask.....I'm about to get my M finished and gonna be refilling my belly pump. Do I use hydro fluid or oil, and how do I know how much to put in? There is no dip stick, thanks, and sorry for ask question on your thread buddy.

I'm not sure if the M belly pump is the same as the H. The H takes straight 30w oil. When I drained and refilled, it took 5 quarts for it to fully extend my loader lift cylinders. Hope this helps.

It does, thank you.
 
I have an H with the liftall attachment for a manure bucket.
Technically, the "LiftAll" is the pump unit, often commonly called the "belly pump". Your LiftAll powers your #30 loader.
The cylinder seals are not completely water tight and I'm thinking rain water will run along the cylinders and seep into the system.
Not really likely you're getting any significant water that way. In my experience, any tractor that sits outside in anything other than a desert climate, accumulates water from condensation over time just from the heating and cooling of housings and the drawing in of air containing water vapor. The more 24 hour temperature stability you can give any piece of equipment (not just under a roof, but inside 4 walls), the less moisture / condensation damage it will suffer.

The loader having "one way" cylinders to work with the LiftAll internal "one way" valve, every time you extend the cylinders, you're bringing in 5 quarts of air which contains water vapor. Leave the cylinders extended overnight, and most of the water in that air condenses in a cooling pump case. Because water is heavier than oil, it sinks to the bottom and the only way out is the drain plug.

If left outside, an amazing amount of rain can get into transmissions from the shifter stem alone.

Also, the liftall is held together with a series of pins that are 3/4" but have carriage bolt heads on one side. Anyone know where to get 3/4" carriage pins without threads? Thanks.

Happy Harry
Harry, don't use bolts. If there are threads anywhere inside a pivot point, it will wear the pivot bushings a lot faster than a pin would. Places like Tractor Supply have 3/4" pins (cat1 toplink pins, draw pins, etc) available in several lengths. Or you could go to CaseIH and very likely still be able to get the OEM pins, and bushings if needed. Or you could have a local machine shop make slightly oversize pins to more accurately fit the wear the loader pivots have seen over the past 60 or so years, or even make replacement bushings.

I've found that short of having a shop full of machine tools and the skills to use them, having a friend (or two or several) in local machine shop(s), is an absolute necessity when dealing with equipment that's seen 40 or more years of use. Not only have I made parts (or hired more complicated items), but occasionally made parts better and cheaper than I could have bought them through a dealer.

Enjoy your H. I'm certainly liking mine.
 
We have one of those old IH loaders. didn't have the boots on it when we bought it used in the mid 1960s. It has sat outside all those years. Never worked on the cylinders at all. It would still work if I put it on today.

Gene
 
Technically, the "LiftAll" is the pump unit, often commonly called the "belly pump". Your LiftAll powers your #30 loader.

Hello WellWorn. Thanks for clearing up some of the terminology for me. And a lot of what you said makes a lot of sense and I appreciate your input. I was thinking about that humidity factor as well for the belly pump. It makes more sense, since the cylinder seals are tight enough to function well and not spit oil all over the place.

If left outside, an amazing amount of rain can get into transmissions from the shifter stem alone.

I never thought of that. How do you suppose the water is getting thru the shifter stem? I have a bell cover under the spring on the shifter. Do you think it is getting in above that bell cover where the spring is? If so, maybe I could cover that spring with a piece of rubber.
Either way, I need to replace the axle seals. When I looked at the parts diagram in the book, it shows a felt washer in there. Do I need to replace that felt washer along with the seal?

Harry, don't use bolts.

I won't use any threads in there. I was thinking a long carriage bolt with an unthreaded shank and just cut the threads off, but I'm not sure if such an animal exists. My local farm supply can get the OEM for $27 a pin. That's a bit much if you ask me. I will probably go the farm fab route.

Enjoy your H. I'm certainly liking mine.

Me too! She's a good ol' work horse. Hope she lasts longer than me. Thanks again!

Happy Harry
 
Hi Harry,

You got it with the cylinder seals - if they aren't spitting oil out, water isn't getting in.

The shifter stem, even with the 'bell cover', is not water tight. It does a good job of keeping most of the rain out, but some still leaks in and over time, it adds up. When I got my H, the first thing I did (after getting it unloaded), was drain and change the fluids. The tranny had nearly 2 gallons of clear water in the bottom, with another 4 gallons of 'milk' (water/oil mix) on top of that. It had been sitting outside for at least a year. The belly pump (LiftAll) had virtually no water. My Super A spends more of it's time outside of late (not enough room in the barn), and is accumulating water in the tranny too. I can tell because the seals leak, and as the oil level comes up (displaced by water), it leaks more. I'm thinking I might fab up something with an "O" ring between the spring and bell cover (with a dab of silicone grease, or vaseline), which would seal the shaft a lot better.

As for the felt seals (wherever installed, not just axles), they were intended to hold a bit of oil to keep the outer shaft lubricated and protect the inner seal lip from dirt. They do wear, and they aren't that expensive. I'd replace them, but if you find them still lightly 'snug' on the shaft, you can wash them out well in solvent, re-oil them, and re-use. Remove any rust from the shaft where they ride, and a little grease there would be good.

RE: bolts.
Carriage bolts, other than having a square under the head which doesn't fit a bushing well, will probably be really hard to find in a 3/4" size, and even harder to find without full threading. Long 3/4" hex bolts would be easier to find, though would still look like bolts unless you wanted to grind the heads round.

What length pins are you looking for? I would think you could find a 3/4" draw (hitch) pin of close enough length for less than $5-7 each, which is probably still cheaper than buying bolts plus your time to make pins out of them.

You could also get a length of 3/4" cold rolled rod, weld a 3/4" flat washer on one end, cut the pin 5/8" longer than overall bushing depth, drill a 7/32" hole ~3/8 back from the free end, grind a taper on the free end, install, slide another washer on the inside and use 3/16" hairpins or cotters as keepers.

As always: "Not intended as financial advice"; "your actual mileage may vary" (YAMMV); "Reed fully instructions before use"; "May cause serious injury or harm"; "For professional use only"... rrlund has a much longer list of caveats and warnings. It's a hoot.

Well Worn
 
The shifter stem, even with the 'bell cover', is not water tight. It does a good job of keeping most of the rain out, but some still leaks in and over time, it adds up. When I got my H, the first thing I did (after getting it unloaded), was drain and change the fluids. The tranny had nearly 2 gallons of clear water in the bottom, with another 4 gallons of 'milk' (water/oil mix) on top of that. It had been sitting outside for at least a year.

If the gear box is covered in milky oil, any suggestions on getting that out? I'm thinking maybe drain it and fill with kero and just run it gently thru the gears to clean most of it up. Drain the kero and refill with gear oil. Any thoughts?
 
That would work anotherbri. Be sure it's cleaned out cuz gear oil isn't cheap. My M cost a lil better than 150.00$ to fill, Haha.

Don't run it real long like that or high in in the rpm. Your input bearing is at 1:1 with the engine. Shouldn't hurt anything to putt around and knock loose bunch of that crud in there though.

But...after second thoughts, maybe you shouldn't do it. The pumpkin(rear of tranny where bull gears run), will hold a decent amount of the kero in the bottom, which will thin your gear oil down. I dunno, it's your call, just making you aware.
 
I Have used hydrolic fliud in my M and H for years with NO problems. This way if I use someone elses plow or disk I don't have too worry about what they have used and not getting oils mixed up............. Kenny
 
I Have used hydrolic fliud in my M and H for years with NO problems. This way if I use someone elses plow or disk I don't have too worry about what they have used and not getting oils mixed up............. Kenny
 
That would work anotherbri. Be sure it's cleaned out cuz gear oil isn't cheap. My M cost a lil better than 150.00$

That's what I'm talkin about. Haha

But...after second thoughts, maybe you shouldn't do it. The pumpkin(rear of tranny where bull gears run), will hold a decent amount of the kero in the bottom, which will thin your gear oil down. I dunno, it's your call, just making you aware.

I wonder if jacking the left and right sides up would get most out? Hmmmm. You're talking about the axle housings, right?
 

Does anybody have any recommendations on where to get parts? I saw that Steiner had some rear axle seals for half the price of anybody else. Makes me wonder if they are crap junk seals or if they are just as good as dealer seals. Anybody have any experience with any of this?? :?: :?:
 

Does anybody have any recommendations on where to get parts? I saw that Steiner had some rear axle seals for half the price of anybody else. Makes me wonder if they are crap junk seals or if they are just as good as dealer seals. Anybody have any experience with any of this?? :?: :?:
 

Does anybody have any recommendations on where to get parts? I saw that stein er had some rear axle seals for half the price of anybody else. Makes me wonder if they are crap junk seals or if they are just as good as dealer seals. Anybody have any experience with any of this?? :?: :?:
 
(quoted from post at 06:49:32 08/13/15)
That would work anotherbri. Be sure it's cleaned out cuz gear oil isn't cheap. My M cost a lil better than 150.00$

That's what I'm talkin about. Haha

But...after second thoughts, maybe you shouldn't do it. The pumpkin(rear of tranny where bull gears run), will hold a decent amount of the kero in the bottom, which will thin your gear oil down. I dunno, it's your call, just making you aware.

I wonder if jacking the left and right sides up would get most out? Hmmmm. You're talking about the axle housings, right?

Sorry, just seen this....no, at the rear of tranny, where the bull gears are....at the bottom it drops below the drain hole. It holds some ounces there. Couldn't say how much though.
 
(quoted from post at 08:08:47 08/27/15)
Does anybody have any recommendations on where to get parts? I saw that stein er had some rear axle seals for half the price of anybody else. Makes me wonder if they are crap junk seals or if they are just as good as dealer seals. Anybody have any experience with any of this?? :?: :?:

I'm not gonna lie...I got all my seals from eBay, and all engine seals and gaskets came with my rebuild kit from yesterday's tractors. Haven't got many hours on my restored m but so far nothing is poring out of it yet...haha

Chance
 

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