H Farmall Broken Frame Bolt{s} on Bolster

Gentlemen,
I was in the process of replacing both frames on my 41' H om Wednesday morning. Both original frames are cracked and have been welded. The front of the tractor is supported under the engine with blocks and a floor jack. I applied some heat and penetrating oil before I started per suggestions from some IH mechanic friends. When I went to slowly remove one of the attachment bolts on the right side (bolster end), it simply snapped off flush with the bolster surface. Cautiously, I proceeded to the next bolt with the same result. Now I really feel snake bit. How will drilling out the broken/rusted bolt(s) along with easy- out work? I haven't any experience in this department? Any suggestions, instructions or prayers are greatly appreciated. Thanks...
Sapper

Well my experience with broken bolts is you are going to need a torch, and some good sharp drill bits, and are you familiar with a Heli-Coil and how they work?

Drill them all the way through,dead center. You can get some lube behind them and some heat,maybe they will come out.

Do your self a favor and remove the word easy out from your vocabulary and the actual easy outs from your toolbox. Think about the premise here; you broke off a bolt, you are going to drill a hole in it, and insert a smaller diameter piece of metal, and twist on it, and expect it NOT to break???????

You know, you may be on to something here...I may need to think about this.
Sapper

Thanks for the reply. I guess I may need to do that as you say. I hope that heat from something like Mapp Gas will do the trick. Thanks again,
Sapper

Thanks 504,
That is my thought also. I just haven't had to do a lot of that kind of tractor surgery. I'll do it tomorrow. Thanks again,
Sapper

I'd soak them for an eternity and them weld a nut on them. The heat cycle from welding will break the rust bond.

Well, about two months ago I had to drill out 5 of 8 bolts on a 350 bolster from my boneyard. The 350 came in as a parts tractor minus the engine. Whoever took it off wasn't real concerned about the bolts and just wanted it apart. I was putting the 350 bolster onto an H chassis as part of a franken-tractor I'm building into a tree saw. The H bolster was completely shot.

Anyway it's not as bad as it looks once you have all the stuff out and get started. I agree that you should just forget about using an ez-out for this job. You will need the appropriate tap for that bolt size for the final clean up. Even though I did all those I can't remember here at the computer if it was 1/2, 9/16 or 5/8.

The critical part is to accurately center punch the bolt remnant and then drill an 1/8 or so pilot hole all the way through. Then depending on how tough you and your drill are, use one or two more sizes to drill out the bolt to just under the original hole size (i.e. the thread minor diameter). You'll likely be slightly off no matter what and will see some of the thread pattern. Then take a metal pick with a 90 degree tip and start working on that first bolt thread and start digging it out of the hole thread. Once it gets started it's not that hard to keep bending it out.

When there's a little tab sticking out grab it with some needle nose pliers and twist it counter- clockwise. You should be able to unwind most if not all of it that way. If it breaks just start again with the pick. If you can get at least a 1/2" or so cleaned out you can get a tap started in the hole and it will do the rest, just take your time.

I think you might be surprosed how well this goes. CenTex hsa it right, start with a 1/8" drill and go all the way CAREFULLY and SLOWLY, so you don't break that drill bit off. Get it lined up exactly right. Then step it up slightly larger and larger, and be CAREFUL. Use your f avorite oil to cool the drill bit. I drilled all the way through the cast iron boss of the block, on my H, to install a dipstick. Drilled almost through 3" of cast iron. Did it progressively larger, and CAREFULLY. Worked good.

Reminds me of when I worked at an Allis Chalmers dealer and had to change front ends, Four bolts on each side, A couple bolts had been broken off and painted over, I twisted off all but the the remaining two and the shop foreman walked by and struck the bolt heads with a three pound hammer and then said, "Turn 'em out and drill the rest". It is too late to help you now but it usually works. That old Devil of a shop foreman would let me make mistakes before he would teach me something new. I still do not like him and he has been dead for ten years.

If they act like breaking before turning, Pound the crap out of them on the heads first. Probably have to replace bolts and drive a old socket on them if it takes a few rounds with the hammer. Impact turned low seems to get them loose before breaking compared to a strong arm. If that fails weld nuts to the broken bolts if not below the casting. Should end up with a red hot bolt after welding. Let cool and try. Drill as a last step if others fail. That's my opinion anyway.
Watch the frame rails if getting others. 41 model probably has the front engine mount holes for rubber mounts. If it still has them get the blocks to replace the rubber type between engine and frame rails if replacing with later model frame rails.

FBH,I broke off a easy out, in a situation like that, i just put the torch to it melted that easy out, out, which seldome work anyway, went back to drilling it bigger, got it out and put in a Heli Coil, tighter than ever now

If you do not already own an arc welder, this will be a very good excuse to go get one. The ONLY way to remove those broken off bolts is to weld a nut onto them.

Hello Rusty,
I finally accomplished removing all but 2 of the broken/rusted bolts. I drilled all the way through each bolt by progressively increasing the size of the drill bits until most of the body of the bolts were removed. All the bolts broke about 1/8th to 1/4 of an inch below the surface. I ended up breaking two drill bits while starting pilot holes. I liberally soaked all the broken bolts with penetrating oil and applied heat with mapp gas and went about carefully drilling. I finally re-tapped the holes and reassembled the frames onto the tractor. It took me about six hours to do the job on both sides.

Sapper55
Glad you got them out before doing any damage. My thoughts are "if force fails, use finesse".
Learned a couple tricks, but I'm not steady enough to do it myself, gladly pay a pro when I need one.
First choice is to weld a flat washer to the broken stud, especially if broken below the surface. Easier to strike an arc than reaching through a nut. Usually can then turn stub out with ordinary pliers. If needed, weld a nut to the washer.
Second choice is to use cutting torch with small tip. Had foreman in school bus shop blow exhaust manifold stud out of head. Then clean up threads with a tap. He said bolt will melt before the cast gets hot enough to do any damage. Only takes a minute.
Like i said, I'm not steady enough to do it myself.
Willie

(quoted from post at 21:46:50 07/31/15) Hello Rusty,
I finally accomplished removing all but 2 of the broken/rusted bolts. I drilled all the way through each bolt by progressively increasing the size of the drill bits until most of the body of the bolts were removed. All the bolts broke about 1/8th to 1/4 of an inch below the surface. I ended up breaking two drill bits while starting pilot holes. I liberally soaked all the broken bolts with penetrating oil and applied heat with mapp gas and went about carefully drilling. I finally re-tapped the holes and reassembled the frames onto the tractor. It took me about six hours to do the job on both sides.

Click to expand...

I've dealt with several bolys that broke off below the surface. I find a nut that will fit down into the cavity, weld down through the center of that nut, and then weld a larger nut on top of the first one.

(quoted from post at 15:28:25 07/31/15)
If you do not already own an arc welder, this will be a very good excuse to go get one. The ONLY way to remove those broken off bolts is to weld a nut onto them.

Click to expand...

That is exactly the reason my dad bought an arc welder in 1957. The only difference being that his H was a 1940. one side frame had been broken and weld back together. About half of the bolster bolts had their heads broken off. I don't know how much welding experience he had before that but he did manage to get all the broken ones out.

I later swapped out the side rails and front motor mounts from a 43 H he parted out. Between the welded frame and the sagging rubber front mounts used on the early H tractors you could not engage the cranking coupler to the front of the crankshaft.

(quoted from post at 20:33:37 07/30/15) I'd soak them for an eternity and them weld a nut on them. The heat cycle from welding will break the rust bond.

Click to expand...

HIS...... Get a washer and nuts the same size as the bolt and get busy with a mig welder. Build the bolt up with weld and weld the nut to the buildup on the bolt. That will put a ton of heat into both the casting and bolt. Before trying to pull off let it cool. This works 99% of the time for me.

It works even better if you can get enough heat into the bolt without heating the casting.

If you can get enough heat into the bolt so that it expands and exerts enough force on the casting so that it exceeds the point of elasticity, as the bolt continues to expand it will be deformed so that when it cools it will have a slightly smaller diameter that before it was heated. The longer you leave the bolt before trying to remove it, the more likely it will become looser.