Super H Tricycle

GordoSD

Well-known Member
I'm changing my SH over from WF to tricycle. In search of the wedge plate and the special tapered stop bolt for this changeover.Email is open if you have them. Will be selling the Schwartz WF which is in excellent condition, no welds new TRE's. Fits H, SH. 300, 350.
or 6o5 77zero 384o
 
Like Catguy suggests, for the stop bolt weld a nut to the head of a regular bolt and you'll be good to go.

The wedge plate is an aftermarket accessory to give the tractor "poor man's power steering". Your SH will steer fine without it.
 
Seems like I saw the wedge plate on ebay some years back. Was sort of pricey. I think I have see both versions of how to install it, thick end forward, thick end back. Never have figured that out.
 
The wedge is supposed to be installed with the thin end to the front (the one on my SH has "FRONT" cast prominently into the thin end).

When properly installed the wedge reduces the lower bolster caster angle. This then reduces steering wheel effort a little. The downside is it reduces the "self centering" tendency of the steering. Also if the steering has any wobble to it installing a wedge makes the wobbling worse.
 
I agree the thin end was intended to go forward. But that increases caster, unless I forgot everything learned about steering geometry.
 
you shouldn't need one for your super h if ih did super h's like super m's. my general sales bulletin from feb. '52 shows the improvements on the super model m. one of them is the amount of caster has been decreased from 1 1/2" to 7/8". this reduces the effort required to turn the front wheels yet sufficient caster remains to induce self-recovery after the turn has been completed.
 
That is my way of seeing caster also and according to my old front end geometry books. Thin edge forward would increase caster. When turning the steering wheel, the more caster, the more the front end will raise as you turn, thus making it steer harder but self center better.
 
Caster is what is found on the front wheels of a shopping cart. The pivot point is vertical, and the point of tire contact is an inch behind the pivot. Caster on a car is derived from the inclination of the ball joints at the end of the control arms top joint forward, lower joint rearward. this causes the contact patch to be behind the geometry average. KPI (king pin inclination is the positioning of the upper ball joint inward from the lower joint. this causes far more "jacking" than the caster, though the caster does cause a little. In a tractor narrow front (single or 2 narrow) the upper bolster is considered vertical front to back, and, obviously, side to side. Thus it is exactly like a caster on a shopping cart. The farther back the contact patch/es, the more caster, neither has jacking. Less caster allows the steering effort to be reduced because the contact patches (with little caster) do not push the tractor sideways around a corner toward the inside, when the tractor wants to go straight. Imagine 2 foot of caster with the lower bolster warped rearward that far. turning the wheel to the right, (sitting still) will move the front of the tractor to the right a great distance. When moving the tractor always wants to go straight. The wheels (with this exaggerated caster) are now fighting the turn with near 50 % of the tractors mass. let go of the wheel and it will go way straight and tear your thumb off if within the spokes. So IH decided that they put too much caster in the lower bolster and made the wedge to reduce this so the tires pivot closer to the axis of the upper bloster shaft. Interesting topic, and fun geometry. Jim
 
In looking at the illustrations in my books on caster, the top of the king pin is toward the rear and bottom is toward the front. And like you say, that makes the contact point of the tire behind the axis line of the king pin. Same as the narrow front on the tractor. When you look at it from the side the pedestal is tilted to lead forward. You can look at any wide front, especially on IH tractors you can see their positive castor and positive camber. Like you say, same deal with the shopping cart. The point of contact of the wheel to ground is behind the pivot point. When the bolt holes wear in the wide fronts the caster decreases as the knee starts to first straighten up and then with more wear lean rearward. My old 37 Ford had a lot of positive caster and the wheels returned to forward by them selves after a turn.
 
The book is correct, the caster is more positive when the top of the king pin is rearward. (I was not clear/correct? It is complex, jim
 
Been wrong before but you haven't convinced me yet. IH wheel base specs are all over the place depending on publication looked at. But the best I can tell is when IH started lower bolsters that they said reduced the caster the wheelbase was then shorter by fractions of a inch for a SH and SM than 51 models back were. If that's the case thin side to front would increase wheelbase and caster.
 
Assuming the upper bolster is really vertical (proper rear and front tires to make it level), the caster is least when the tires (pointed straight ahead) are directly under the axis of the upper bolster. (contact patch of a single tire pierced in the center. Caster is maximum when the axix of the upper bolster leads the contact patches substantially. A theoretical cart caster with no rearward offset ends up sideways and skidding because it does not follow the pull from the pivot. Positive caster is greater displacement behind the pivot. Negative caster pushes the contact patch down the road. Positive caster drags the contact patch. In a car/truck/or in an extreme example, a chopper motorcycle, the caster is provided by the inclination of the suspension points fore to aft. in a simple caster (tractor single or narrow front, or shopping cart) the caster is provided by the offset of the bracket. Jim
 
Jim have to admit I'm really confused. Was thinking a motorcycle was called positive caster when the axle was ahead of the steering axis. Also thinking if the farmall upper steering shaft is vertical and you tilt the lower bolster forward at the bottom so tire contact is ahead of the steering shaft with tire straight forward that would be positive caster.
Maybe things are different than a vehicle with upper and lower ball joints where positive puts the lower joint forward of the top one.
Guess from what you say my thinking is messed up.
 
The original IH lower bolsters were manufactured with substantial positive caster. contact patch trailing the axis of the upper bolster. the plate installed thin edge forward reduces this caster. It makes it steer easier because there is less tendency to go straight, and the narrow front wheels move more centrally around the axis. Imagine an H in loose disked earth with the front wheels turned to the right full lock. The wheels are skidding (waiting for application of the wheel brake). The wheels with no wedge are now out to the left several inches, and trying to straighten out pushing hard on the steering wheel back to center. Now imagine the same situation with the plate installed. The wheels are substantially less out to the left, and the self straightening force pushing the steering wheel back around is much less. Thus easier to turn to full lock. I have cultivated with a 2 row on an H for 13 years, the tractor was turned 180 with the turning wheel stopped pivoting on that footprint twice each round once left, and once right. Push soil with the narrow front I did. (as Yoda would say). The dreaded wobble in road gear is worse with the plate than without it. Great discussion, and solid thinking. Jim
 
Jim need to apologize to you and Bob for questioning your answers. No disrespect meant though just thought the answer was wrong. Like they say never to old to learn.
 
Pete 23 and yourself are fundamentally experts on and in many tractor topics. I feel lucky to add to your knowledge. Jim
 

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