D361 engine head bolts

Brian806

Member
This weekend I started working on these two 806s that I bought a few years back that are a mess half tore apart just a big heap of parts! So anyhow I have twork rebuildable 361 engines and one parts with a hole in the block! Now I was thinking about getting new head bolts when I put them back together! Now the question is one engine has square bolts and a thicker shank about a inch down from the head then smaller the rest of the way to the threads one engine has a 8 point head and the same shank deal as the first now the third has grade 8 bolts with no difference in the shank! Now which bolts are correct? Can I use the grade 8 bolts?
 
the parts book makes no mention of a serial number break for the head bolts, but our '64 has the 8 point bolts, original. our '65 has the square head. so i assume they changed the part at some point. as for the shank diameter i don't know. i would say either of the first two came from IH, the grade 8 bolts are probably what someone used from the hardware store.

i'm not sure why you'd replace the head bolts unless they are in bad shape.
 
Early engine S/N were just a WEeeeeee bit different then late S/n engines and there was different head bolts used . The head bolts are not torque to yeild and can be use over again as long as they are not pitted, light surface rust will clean off . If your going to rebuild a D361 then your in for a treat as they are not a novice friendly engine to rebuild . You just don't tear it down and STUFF it back together . You don't know the history of it , you don't know if it was rebuilt before , you don't know if the block was bored .010 over . Sleeves must be pressed in to the proper spec. then you must check and make sure that while you were pressing in that sleeve that you did not wrinkle it , then you have to FIT each piston to the bore that your going to use it in . Myself i like to have the block line BORED (not line honed ) first then if the block has never been trued up with the .010 over bore then do the over bore off the NEW center line of the crank. As for the head i like to install all new valve seat and guide andhave the head LIGHTLY Milled along with the deck of the block and on the block have the counter bores recut to insure that al sleeves set the SAME , on the head the valves MUST protrude at a give hight . I do both ends of the connecting rods and have them magnfluxed , and the crank checked and done to what ever it needs.
 
No wonder they are expensive to rebuild. Not to be a Negative Nancy but that is probably why those tractors were sold the way they were.
 
That .010 over was standard for the 407, wasn't it ? And when u do line bore it, how much off are they, if any??
 
The .010 is a oversized sleeve and is used to true up any core shift in the block . As for line bore you grind off a little meat on the main bear caps and install them back on the block and torque them down and the boring bar lightly takes a little meat out of the block and more out of the main caps . Use to be and easy task when my one long time friend was still doing machine work as he had the best shop anywhere around and the newest state of the art machines . His line bore was able to do engines up to a V-16 or down to a small jap two cylinder . His stationary boring bar was also state of the art and the only one at the time this side of the Mississippi and could not only bore cylinder from 2 inch on up to 12 inches but it could also deck the block , do counter bore and do it off the true center line of the block . So that when we were trying to take care of any core shift everything was dead on and that is when you would see how much core shift you had . On one D361 we had one that we had to over bore and install repair sleeves and rebore to get the .010 sleeves to line up with the center line of the crank. with a old style portable boring bar ya can not get that accurate . But my friend had a bad heart attach and had to have bypass and was forced to close up. He offered me his shop for a steal but i had no way of coming up with that kind of money even though it was less then he paid three year earlier for the boring bar set up . And yes i could run every piece of equipment he had and did so on many occasions as i would take something up for him to do and i would be in a rush for it and he would be buried with other work and he would tell WELL YOU KNOW HOW TO DO IT GO FOR IT . The line bore i could do but he was much better at it and could set up way faster then i could . So if it was aline bore job and he was doing cylinder heads i would do the head work while he line bored for me . Dick and go back to the early sixtys together and we did a lot of engine building .
 
IF ya want one done correctly then ya had best squeeze the piggy bank. There are three engines that scare me to death on rebuild , (D-361 ) (D-407 ) and any old two cycle Detroit . One local farmer did not like my price to do a rebuild on his 806 and said he could do it himself , his first engine did not make it out the door when it ventilated the block , his next engine lasted 2 hours when it came unglued and ventilated the block , engine #3 made 10-11 hours and took the block and crank . engine #4 lasted around 30 hours , he was getting better . Block #5 he broke trying to get the sleeves out and he came whining to me about it and he brought the block with him , I do not know where he found it but it looked like it had sat under water for ten years and wanted me to do something with it . Well i took the block up to Dick and to get the sleeves out we put it on the boring bar and bored the ones left in it out , we over bored the broken hole and pressed i a thick wall repair sleeve , to clean all the rust we sent it out and had it blasted then line bored it and did the .010 overbore sleeve line bored the cam bore and pressed in inserts and drilled the oil holes decked the block and did the counter bores and install the sleeves and run a ridged hone up and down the new sleeves to cure the wrinkle problem and FIT each piston to that bore . He told me that the NEXT time that it would be cheaper to have me do it .
 
WOW, Thats a shame to have a business like that close the doors,there is just not the talent out there, to replace your friend. he had the tools,talent,the building, and the equipment,and the customers knocking down his door he couldn't find a buyer.
 
Tractor vet! Your scaring me haha! I was hoping to have a reputable machine shop they do alot of work on race cars in my area put the sleeves pistons and crank and all together for me and all I half to do is put on the oil pan and set the head on! Would you mind maybe giving me a list of things to maybe help me and them! On some stuff to watch for! You seem like your pretty knowledge able on these! The guy that owns the machine shop has never done one but I took him my shop book and he thought they could probly handle it! I hope! Thanks
 
Well building a race engine is one thing building a diesel is another . (1) i doubt that they have a line bore outfit , they may have a line HONE , i will NOT LINE HONE as they tend to take meat off BOTh the block and caps and this will move the center line of the crank UP into the block a lot more and on a diesel that is the last thing you want to do taking a couple thousandth out of the block is one thing but taking ten twenty is another as this will set the crank gear deeper into the next gear and move the top of the piston up that much then when you dust the deck of the block that moves the piston up more and getting the counter bore cut just a whisker you move the sleeve down and this moves the piston up . also getting the sleeves PRESSED in to the proper press is will be a NEW thing for them . And IF you gave them and I T manual they will not have all the info they need , Dick had the books and another guy i use NOW has the factory books myself i do not as i do not do the machine work on them now that Dick is gone. You are over in Pa. wright ?? , if you are close to New Castle you may want to go talk with Harry Sr. at Progressive diesel Harry is and OLD I H mechanic he has a Machine shop and a diesel injection shop , I do not think that he has a line BORE i think he has a line hone . Most shops today just want to HONE because it takes less time for set up and is a little faster but like i said it takes meat off the block and caps and myself i do not like it and it is NOT as accurate the same applys to using a portable boring bar they center off the bore that you set up on and NOT the true center line of the crank. and not everybody has a fancy Winoni stationary boring bar. Now Chad does things a bit different but takes him forever to set up as he does then on a OLD horizontal mill and he can hold .0003 accurate , his other down side is getting the job done as he has a 5.9 Cummins to do for me and it has been there since last fall he has a two cylinder for one of my customers and it has been setting for two years. the only way you get him to do a job is go set and bug him to death or you get put on the back burner. Just like the job i am trying to work on now i am working on and off color for me 6080 A/C that had a miss and i came in this job after three other EXPERTS tried to get the miss out of this tractor and now i am the one that found the problem and it was a brunt or chipped valve i am WAITING on the head to come back and they are waiting on parts to come . I offered to get the parts as i had found all the parts that were needed and i would have had them in two days but NO the machine shop said THEY would get the parts and we are still waiting .
 
Yea I'm over here in pa east of clarion on 80 about a hour from new Castle maybe I need to go see these guys over in new Castle! I'm on a budget but not on a budget I'd rather pay to be done right than pay for it twice or more times! You know what I mean!
 
Nope and i could not come up with a quarter Mill to buy him out lock stock and barrel.The only things he did not have was a Crank grinder and a crank welder . Hey had a balancer to balance engines and a flow bench to trick out heads. along with a seat and guide machine a head surfacer magnafluxing set up pressure testing of heads and blocks flywheel grinder two lathes two bridgeports hyd press couple portable boreing bars the line bore fancy high pressure washing cabnit big bead blasting set up over head cranes hot water pressure washing set up that had 3500 psi engine stands and i can not remember everything he had . he opened the doors at 8 and closed when he turned off the lights . I know one night he and i turned off the lights at 4 A M and he went to bed and i went a put the engine together and back in the tractor so it could be at the pull by noon . It blew up on the first hook at the end of the track , won the class we shoved it on the trailer mad a bee line for the shop and three of us went to work getting it tore down and see how bad the block was . This was a 487 Donavon aluim. block verson of a 392 hemi. There was a fist size hole in the block and she was cracked down thru the center main web . We cleaned up the ragged edges on the hole in the block and squared them off and we cut a 4x4 x5/8ths piece of aluim plate and fit that into the hole and welded it in as for the crack in the center main web i veed it out and welded it both side with the mig . we grabbed one of the spare girdles and thru everthing in the pick up and off to Dick's we went First things first set the block up on the bridge port and drill an new oil hole in the center web , next install the new girdle and line bore it and the block we had larger sleeves but the block had to be bored a little to take the new larger sleeves , next was to weigh and start the balancing of the bottom end . The block was together when we left all i had to do was put A cam in put the spare heads on it and set everything and stuff it in . Never even fired it up till we got to the fair grounds a quick set on the timing and a guesstamation on the fuel set and it was hooked to the sled and it was out the gate once again . drag it back to the truck add 2000 lbs and another gate shot . When he quiet pulling that tractor there were more patches on that block then a patch work quilt and and atleast two large spools of 5056 wire run on that block.
 

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