Now it Labors.

L.Fure

Well-known Member
I have the Tel-A-Depth working on my 340 utility now. At least I think I do. I have the linkage adjusted so that the lift raises and lowers to the heights that it should stop at, according to the manual. But the engine labors a little when the hitch stops moving. When I move the lever to move the hitch the engine picks up a little rpm. When it stops the engine will drop about a hundred rpms and the engine sounds like it is laboring. Is this normal with the Tel-A-Depth?
 
No , sounds like something is not letting the oil flow . ?
Hopefully someone has more knowledge as to why.
 
No, it indicates that the pilot valve in the regulator (or its screen) is probably plugged up. It has an orifice that unloads the hydraulics when nothing is flowing. Jim
 
I have a 340 utility too,i have used it less than 1 hour in 3 yrs, Mine does the same thing, but was thinking the flow controls, have to be turned 90% turn, but havent had time to try that !! I have 2 point hitch, but also a loader, when u raise the loader it's coasting, and as soon as you stop raising, it labors!
 
(quoted from post at 03:24:57 06/23/15) No, it indicates that the pilot valve in the regulator (or its screen) is probably plugged up. It has an orifice that unloads the hydraulics when nothing is flowing. Jim

Is the pilot valve the control valve, or is it the box next to it? It didn't labor before I changed valves. I had the control valve apart, at least as apart as I could get it, and cleaned it up before installed it on the tractor. I don't remember a screen in the thing.
 
(quoted from post at 03:33:38 06/23/15) I have a 340 utility too,i have used it less than 1 hour in 3 yrs, Mine does the same thing, but was thinking the flow controls, have to be turned 90% turn, but havent had time to try that !! I have 2 point hitch, but also a loader, when u raise the loader it's coasting, and as soon as you stop raising, it labors!

Yes, mine does the same thing as yours. When I run either the hitch or the loader the engine coasts, and when either stops the engine starts to labor. I wish I had better manuals to work with.
 
(quoted from post at 03:24:57 06/23/15) No, it indicates that the pilot valve in the regulator (or its screen) is probably plugged up. It has an orifice that unloads the hydraulics when nothing is flowing. Jim

Is this something I can fix without removing the unit from the tractor? Time is running out for me. I need to have all this working correctly before I go under the knife. I see the surgeon on Thursday to schedule the surgery.

Before I go nuts on the regulator, I need to know if this problem could be caused by the linkage adjustment. The regulator didn't cause any laboring before I installed the Tel-A-Depth valve. I had to make the front actuating rod without knowing it's correct length. I took my best guess and it was too long. I shortened it 1/4" and got the unit to work, after I made adjustments to the center actuating rod. I definitely don't want to remove the control valve, or regulator from the tractor again. It's too much of a struggle for me to go through that again.
 
If the engine labors with the hitch not at the end of it's lift or drop position, it is not an adjustment. The reason it works different after you replaced a regular valve with a teledepth valve or just added the different valve is that the teledepth valve has more leakage at the internal control port than the other valves have. You should be able to get the regulator valve cover off without removing valve from tractor. Not all that familiar with that model but the valves are all the same. Four bolts hold cover on, heavy spring under it that is relief valve can give you some problems so I always remove opposite corner bolts and install longer ones for disassembly and putting it back on. The other piston has an o-ring that should be replaced. The orfice with screen that controls neutral pressure is a screwdriver headed screw between the two other pistons. It has a screen that plugs and a .024 or .031 thousandth orfice . I usually drill it out to about .040. Requires a wire gauge drill bit as that is very small. Too large and the hydraulics will not go on pressure for you. Too small or plugged, system will stay on pressure. You won't find that information in any book about drilling it out as that was something us bone heads that work on them had to figure out over the years.
 
(quoted from post at 18:22:29 06/23/15) If the engine labors with the hitch not at the end of it's lift or drop position, it is not an adjustment. The reason it works different after you replaced a regular valve with a teledepth valve or just added the different valve is that the teledepth valve has more leakage at the internal control port than the other valves have. You should be able to get the regulator valve cover off without removing valve from tractor. Not all that familiar with that model but the valves are all the same. Four bolts hold cover on, heavy spring under it that is relief valve can give you some problems so I always remove opposite corner bolts and install longer ones for disassembly and putting it back on. The other piston has an o-ring that should be replaced. The orfice with screen that controls neutral pressure is a screwdriver headed screw between the two other pistons. It has a screen that plugs and a .024 or .031 thousandth orfice . I usually drill it out to about .040. Requires a wire gauge drill bit as that is very small. Too large and the hydraulics will not go on pressure for you. Too small or plugged, system will stay on pressure. You won't find that information in any book about drilling it out as that was something us bone heads that work on them had to figure out over the years.

Thank you for that information. I'll take a look at it this afternoon, and get back to you when/if I find anything out.

Okay, this is what I found out. I have a extra regulator that came with the control valve I put on the tractor. I thought it would be better to disassemble that one first to see what I was up against. The first thing I ran into was not having a screw driver big enough to remove the regulator valve seat. Does the ball come out with the seat in place? If not I'll have to cut a groove in the screwdriver blade to fit over the ball. Then I looked over the situation on the tractor. I see that I'll have to remove the pipe that runs in front of the regulator cover.

I'm thinking that the crud, that most likely plugged the orifice, came from the control valve I had installed. I thought I had it all blown/washed out of the valve, but apparently that isn't the case. I fear that when I get the orifice and screen cleaned out it will just plug up again the first time I start the tractor. I'm tempted to send the tractor to the dealer, but it will most likely cost more than I can afford to spend on this project.
 
No need to take the ball and seat out unless it shows signs of the ball not sealing properly. IH had a special tool for that and they can be really tight. If your screen is plugged on the orfice, cut the end off so you can clean it good, then just roll the end back up again. It may or may not plug again, no way of knowing until problem develops. If you were to take it to a dealer you had better look for an old mechanic as anyone under about 60 won't even know what you are talking about. I shouldn't say things like that but be fore warned. As long as you have an extra valve you can afford to experiment a little and drill out that orfice. Just another thing. If that orfice has a roll pin just under the screwdriver slot, there is a check ball in there. That was another one of IH's failed expermints so to speak. That ball bangs back and forth and partially plugs the hole. Then they hardened the seat but it still peened it shut but is too hard to drill out with a tiny drill bit. Early systems that were on the 300- 400 tractors used a .024 thousanths orfice. The 560 etc used a .031 and that is the only one they made after that. But , like I said before , the teledepth valve has considerable more leakage past that control port that intune with the orfice and often required a larger orfice to put the system back off high pressure. Just keep at it and you will get it.
 
(quoted from post at 03:37:47 06/24/15) No need to take the ball and seat out unless it shows signs of the ball not sealing properly. IH had a special tool for that and they can be really tight. If your screen is plugged on the orfice, cut the end off so you can clean it good, then just roll the end back up again. It may or may not plug again, no way of knowing until problem develops. If you were to take it to a dealer you had better look for an old mechanic as anyone under about 60 won't even know what you are talking about. I shouldn't say things like that but be fore warned. As long as you have an extra valve you can afford to experiment a little and drill out that orfice. Just another thing. If that orfice has a roll pin just under the screwdriver slot, there is a check ball in there. That was another one of IH's failed expermints so to speak. That ball bangs back and forth and partially plugs the hole. Then they hardened the seat but it still peened it shut but is too hard to drill out with a tiny drill bit. Early systems that were on the 300- 400 tractors used a .024 thousanths orfice. The 560 etc used a .031 and that is the only one they made after that. But , like I said before , the teledepth valve has considerable more leakage past that control port that intune with the orfice and often required a larger orfice to put the system back off high pressure. Just keep at it and you will get it.

Okay, I got it fixed. I went to the dealer and bought a gasket and o-ring. When I got home I took the cover off and removed the orifice with screen. The screen was clean. This orifice did have the pin and ball in it. I took these parts to my watch repair shop and removed the pin and ball with my staking set. I then cleaned the orifice and screen in a ultrasonic cleaner using watch cleaning and rinsing solutions. Looking at the hole I could see that the hole had been battered from the ball hitting it. I check the diameter of the hole and it was .027". The closest drill bit I had to .040" was .043". I then mounted the orifice to my watchmakers lathe and bored the hole out with the .043" bit. Put everything back together and tested it. Now the Tel-A-Depth works as it should. I bet this is the first time a tractor was repaired with the use of watchmakers tools. :D
 
(quoted from post at 02:16:36 06/25/15) That is way cool. I am glad the diagnosis was on target. Jim

Yes, you guys nailed it. It would have taken me forever to figure that one out, if I ever did.
 
Wow, b ut i dont have a watch maker in any of the small town's,they all left So no more the lugging sound great.
 
Good to hear you got it working ok. You would not believe all the grief that staying on high pressure caused with those teledepth hitch valves early on. The first models had a cable follow up system with a differential gear set on both ends. If you could get the hitch to stop within four inches of where you wanted to you were doing good. Then we had the improvement package with rod linkage and that worked much better. In the meantime, somewhere early on, we had squealing you could hear a mile away every time someone used the hitch. They came up with a modification in the valve that cured that problem. It was nothing more than a crescent groove in the valve body directly inline with the control land on the spool. This was a fix as fail so no recall was made and I am sure a bunch of the original valves are still in use. Made a much smoother action on the hitch, but it also led to more flow escaping. That was when I started drilling out orfices and later on heard that others were doing that also. Originally I did figure that one our for my self as there never was any formal information put out on it. The idea of that ball never worked well and when they hardened the seat it made drilling them near impossible. Orfices did not cost an arm and a leg back then like they do now so replace a lot of them.
On the subject of watch's, my daughter gave me a pocket watch a few years ago. Battery operated so eventually battery died. Put in a new one and it only worked for a few days. Another new one and it is working now, I think. Don't have a battery tester to give that tiny battery a meaningful test.
 
(quoted from post at 18:35:23 06/25/15) Good to hear you got it working ok. You would not believe all the grief that staying on high pressure caused with those teledepth hitch valves early on. The first models had a cable follow up system with a differential gear set on both ends. If you could get the hitch to stop within four inches of where you wanted to you were doing good. Then we had the improvement package with rod linkage and that worked much better. In the meantime, somewhere early on, we had squealing you could hear a mile away every time someone used the hitch. They came up with a modification in the valve that cured that problem. It was nothing more than a crescent groove in the valve body directly inline with the control land on the spool. This was a fix as fail so no recall was made and I am sure a bunch of the original valves are still in use. Made a much smoother action on the hitch, but it also led to more flow escaping. That was when I started drilling out orfices and later on heard that others were doing that also. Originally I did figure that one our for my self as there never was any formal information put out on it. The idea of that ball never worked well and when they hardened the seat it made drilling them near impossible. Orfices did not cost an arm and a leg back then like they do now so replace a lot of them.
On the subject of watch's, my daughter gave me a pocket watch a few years ago. Battery operated so eventually battery died. Put in a new one and it only worked for a few days. Another new one and it is working now, I think. Don't have a battery tester to give that tiny battery a meaningful test.

It's not that uncommon to get a bad watch battery off the shelf. It happens a lot. I buy batteries in bulk for pennies on the dollar. But they do end up in a drawer for a long time, because I only change batteries in the quartz watches that are around the house. My main work is done on spring driven mechanical movement watches. The newest ones being 25 - 50 years old. I've restored some pocket watches that were made in the mid 1800's. Try finding parts for something like that some time. That's why we are called watchmakers. A watchmaker can/should be able to make just about any part in a watch.
 

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