Farmall M-TA PTO bands

dennwaf

Member
Just picked up this M-TA and the PTO won't engage. Adjusted the bands as shown in the manual but still won't engage. The shaft manually free wheels with the handle pulled all the way back. The rear band adjusting screw is screwed in quite a bit more than the forward one.

Do you think the band is worn out, if so how much work is it to remove and replace or repair them? I checked the seasonal disconnect and moved it and no difference. Strange thing... Is the seasonal disconnect bolt also supposed to be a drain plug? It is on this one, and the fluid looks pretty bad, all milky looking. Also is Hy-Tran the fluid of choice for everything but the engine?

I'm new to all this and appreciate any help you can offer. Pictures of the M-TA at the link below.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dennwaf/sets/72157638772284086

Thanks
Dennis
 
Turning the PTO shaft with PTO engaged is normal if something is broke in the PTO drive train. Could also be inside the PTO unit but I doubt it. If going to change the oil, pull the seasonal disconnect after draining to start looking. If no damaged locking dogs found, check the shift lever inside the cover. If okay turn the PTO with handle back and see if the both shafts are turning with dogs engaged. Have a helper try to hold the shaft at dogs and put a pry bar in the PTO shaft hole to see if it holds. If nothing found slide a bar in the front dog and see if the engine will move. If still okay pull the PTO unit and intimidate shaft, check for any damage, if okay take the PTO unit apart.
One other test to start with. Near the front left side of the center housing is a oil fill level plug. With that plug removed you can see if the lower PTO shaft gear is turning. Hook a load to the PTO and have someone hit the engine starter. If the gear doesn't stop turning you can rule out the pressure plate splines or front gear teeth as failing.
Hytran in everything but the steering gear, engine and air cleaner.
Supposed to be a blind bolt hole in the disconnect cover.
 
There were some earlier posts on PTO clutch's.But corn head grease is used in the front steering box, and a multi grade diesel oil in the crankcase.
 
(quoted from post at 04:18:42 06/04/15) Turning the PTO shaft with PTO engaged is normal if something is broke in the PTO drive train. Could also be inside the PTO unit but I doubt it. If going to change the oil, pull the seasonal disconnect after draining to start looking. If no damaged locking dogs found, check the shift lever inside the cover. If okay turn the PTO with handle back and see if the both shafts are turning with dogs engaged. Have a helper try to hold the shaft at dogs and put a pry bar in the PTO shaft hole to see if it holds. If nothing found slide a bar in the front dog and see if the engine will move. If still okay pull the PTO unit and intimidate shaft, check for any damage, if okay take the PTO unit apart.
One other test to start with. Near the front left side of the center housing is a oil fill level plug. With that plug removed you can see if the lower PTO shaft gear is turning. Hook a load to the PTO and have someone hit the engine starter. If the gear doesn't stop turning you can rule out the pressure plate splines or front gear teeth as failing.
Hytran in everything but the steering gear, engine and air cleaner.
Supposed to be a blind bolt hole in the disconnect cover.

Thanks D Slater for the detailed list. As time permits we'll be going through it and keep you all posted. It's planting time which leaves little time to play with the new "old farm toy". Looking in the manual at some of the special tools needed to dismantle the drive train, it looks like we may have our hands full. We were mainly going to use it for tag-along pulling chores. Right now the shinny new Saginaw 3 point it came with is pretty useless :(
 
My son got a chance to take the seasonal disconnect cover off and described via email that the coupling shaft between the seasonal disconnect and rear unit is missing, gone, not there, no trace.

I see there are 359146R1 shafts available through the Tractor House Website. EDITED; Wrong part # above. Can't seem to find the correct part anywhere on the Web.

I live 20 miles from my sons farm, and haven't had a chance to look for myself yet, what's involved in replacing that shaft?

Thanks for the help, you guys are great!

Dennis
 
22360.jpg


Rear unit removed. Discovered there was no sign of a coupler shaft or couplers. Makes me wonder why a previous owner would remove it. Was it broken? Is something else wrong with the PTO? Maybe it broke and they didn't need it and just removed or couldn't find a replacement... Who knows, but it's gone.
 
Seasonal disconnect cover and lever assembly. The bolt hole that's used to lock the disconnect lever is no longer a blind hole and now doubles as a drain plug. Should we fix this or just deal with it? No welding equipment.

mvphoto22364.jpg
 
The seasonal disconnect dogs look pretty good to my untrained eye. Maybe they haven't been used hardly at all. They were disconnected when we picked up the tractor.

mvphoto22365.jpg
 
End of rear PTO unit.

Out of tractor we adjusted the bands and the unit locked in the operating handle forward position, free wheeled in the center position and locked in the engaged position with a load on (by hand holding the shaft).

mvphoto22366.jpg
 



Questions:

How hard is it going to be to find a coupling shaft and couplings, and what could I expect to pay for these parts? Would new stock if available be aftermarket or should I be looking for OEM or used original parts?

We're also looking for the swinging draw bar assembly to add to the Saginaw 3 Point. We've been looking around WA locally, and the only good salvage yard nearby scrapped all there stuff five years ago and now only sell new parts.

We're looking forward to putting this old gal to work. Not for yard art. Maybe a parade or two.

Thanks again

Dennis
mvphoto22368.jpg
 
You may want to start a new thread. This forum is really bad at noticing an update on old threads. I run modern view, but believe it or not :), antique tractor people don't adapt well to change.

Call around to find your shaft. I doubt anybody makes one. WAY too SMTA specific. Mike at Steel Wheel Ranch gets brought up a lot.

If the PTO did what it's supposed to on the bench all you can do it get the shaft and try it. Putting the PTO back in is a royal PITA, maybe they tried getting it all lined up for a couple hours and couldn't get it so they just ditched the shaft?
 
(quoted from post at 04:06:37 06/10/15) You may want to start a new thread. This forum is really bad at noticing an update on old threads. I run modern view, but believe it or not :), antique tractor people don't adapt well to change.

Call around to find your shaft. I doubt anybody makes one. WAY too SMTA specific. Mike at Steel Wheel Ranch gets brought up a lot.

If the PTO did what it's supposed to on the bench all you can do it get the shaft and try it. Putting the PTO back in is a royal PITA, maybe they tried getting it all lined up for a couple hours and couldn't get it so they just ditched the shaft?

I found a couple places 300 miles away that have the shaft and couplings. I think I'll have them shipped. My research shows they were the same part, SMTA thru the 450 series.

I was thinking the same thing as far as aligning the rear unit and shaft. Might need to take the top off the case. Water is getting in there somehow, maybe a new top gasket is in order too. Which reminds me, there are two threaded holes on the right side of the case that are open to the inside. I'm guessing they are attachment holes or for splitting purposes. Should they be open or should I put plugs in them?

Is there an easy way to put all this in a new thread?

mvphoto22389.jpg
 

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