Farmall M engine rebuild...calling all guru's plz.

Chance M · May 17, 2015

First off, I'd like to say hello and glad to be part of the YT forums and thx you for your advice and time.

I'm in the beginning stages of a total M restore....I have gotten the engine tore completely down and gonna do a complete overhaul. Problem is, previous owners let it set for eons with straight water in it so corrosion is unbelievable. I'm having major issues with getting the sleeves out. My method is simply using a punch and hammer from bottom side, trying to knock them out that way. It is not working, lol. I've heard of a sleeve puller. Is this somethin I can rent or what? What have y'all used or any poor boy tricks to getting them out?

Also, I was told about an engine kit that will bump hp up to 58-65 hp over the stock original overhaul kit that produce low to mid 40 hp. Is this real or someone just spouting heresay? Thx

Chance

fastfarmall · May 17, 2015

Yea sleeve pullers are around, I bought mine out of THE RED POWER MAGAZINE, but where is the majority of the rust, inside the water jackets, or everywhere, Yea 60 -65 hp is not a problem.What state u in ?

Chance M · May 17, 2015

In Louisiana. I'll have to get that magazine. What do I gotta do to get that power. The stepped piston kit?

Chance M · May 17, 2015

Ok, I've got the sleeves sorted..

Now, best way to clean out the water jacket without taking to machine shop to have it dipped? Thx for input

gene bender · May 17, 2015

Use a hy press to remove them

fastfarmall · May 17, 2015

redpower.com or712-364-2131 If you have unlimited fund's the way i would do it is deck the block and run flat top pistons, and put a different cam in it, from Custom Built, in Algona Iowa. But that very extensive, and expensieve. Gene is right on useing a hyd press, but u better have the right size die to press it out with too, which i am sure a good machine shop will have!

Dblair · May 17, 2015

take a mig welder and weld 2 or 3 beads down the inside and they'll drop out

fastfarmall · May 17, 2015

Sure you can go with 4in dome pistons but thats about 51-52 hp.

fastfarmall · May 17, 2015

I know that works on a Detroit 2 cycle diesel. But wasting time working on them !

Chance M · May 17, 2015

Thx for info fellas

@ Fastfarmall, not wanting spend a ton. Just wanted a few more ponies. 41-44 hp from stock brand new overhaul just seems a lil weak for me. Wanting that extra 10-20 hp. Gonna be runnin a 6ft. Brush hog most of the time. Thinkin I'll try the domed piston overbore kit and see what happens. Will the dome piston kit go right in with out any other mods???

Chance M · May 17, 2015

Ah thx Fastfarmall. Answered while I was typing.

I've never had a gas tractor. This restore is me just wanting bring back some history, somethin for me and my boys to play with and actually use. We love these old tractors. I currently use a Kubota M6800 for all my duties....mostly this M will take over bruch hog duties and some box blading. 5-52 hp should run that 6ft hog, you think?

kub6040 · May 17, 2015

Chance M , where are you in louisiana as I also live here
and at have parts you could use , 318-542-0896.

Chance M · May 17, 2015

Southwest Louisiana

fastfarmall · May 17, 2015

Ok, we are on the same page, get the 4 in dome pistons, but i would get a new set of valves too. because every time the valves have been ground you take a little of the face and you are actually lowering your compression, Check your crank for size, and check to see if the cam is ok, and when u get done put in some low ash engine oil or 10W-30 caterpillar or any 10W-30 diesel oil, Cats the only one i know that still has it. Pressure check your head to for leaks and cracks, and by all means resurface the flywheel, put in a new pilot brg, and a new threw out brg, and clutch and pressure plate you better talk to high capacity about that. Also check and change the transmission grease.

rustred · May 17, 2015

the best and easiest is to let the machine shop soak it in caustic. it will come out completely clean and be ready for assembly. and also it will be checked for cracks. you cant work on a dirty block and expect miracles, as you said u are doing a complete restoration. there is no other best way. caustic soaking removes all paint and grime.

Chance M · May 17, 2015

(quoted from post at 20:48:13 05/17/15) Ok, we are on the same page, get the 4 in dome pistons, but i would get a new set of valves too. because every time the valves have been ground you take a little of the face and you are actually lowering your compression, Check your crank for size, and check to see if the cam is ok, and when u get done put in some low ash engine oil or 10W-30 caterpillar or any 10W-30 diesel oil, Cats the only one i know that still has it. Pressure check your head to for leaks and cracks, and by all means resurface the flywheel, put in a new pilot brg, and a new threw out brg, and clutch and pressure plate you better talk to high capacity about that. Also check and change the transmission grease.

Excellent! Now, cuz I like to learn. Why the low ash engine oil in this engine? I run rote la 15-40 in all my diesels, so I'll have that on hand. Good?

Chance M · May 17, 2015

(quoted from post at 20:55:53 05/17/15) the best and easiest is to let the machine shop soak it in caustic. it will come out completely clean and be ready for assembly. and also it will be checked for cracks. you cant work on a dirty block and expect miracles, as you said u are doing a complete restoration. there is no other best way. caustic soaking removes all paint and grime.

Your right, I need to find a place. None close to me, I'll have to get on the horn and find one...besides I need the head checked out to....so much to do.

DeltaRed · May 17, 2015

Get a 'Keystone Turbo' kit.Should get 80 horse. About 1800 bucks.Google em. They also advertize in RPM.

Chance M · May 17, 2015

(quoted from post at 21:15:45 05/17/15) Get a 'Keystone Turbo' kit.Should get 80 horse. About 1800 bucks.Google em. They also advertize in RPM.

I seen that. 1550.00 is price I seen. Lil steep for what I'm prepared to spend for upgrade. But, maybe down the road, cuz that would be pretty nifty to have turbo charged M, haha

fastfarmall · May 17, 2015

well that will work good too! Hy-Capacity , sorry for the spelling, well with the oil its all about the extreme pressure additive and the diesel oil and the IHC Low ash has it. And if u do have a engine that uses a little oil u dont want the burnt oil residue building up on the valves. There is more pressure on the camshaft lifting the valves against the springs than there is pressure on the crankshaft absorbing the power strokes.

John M · May 18, 2015

You shouldn't need anything more than an overbore kit to pull a 6ft hog. Domes would be good, but aren't really needed. One of my 41s had 4" flattop pistons, and a kerosene head, and pulls my 6ft fine. Sometimes I have to drop down to 3rd, but 4th is ok most of the time. Now my Dads 41 M, it has Firecraters,450 head and manifold, cam and has had some governor work done to it and it will more than easily power through the stuff I have to drop a gear on the other 41. Its retired now though. Of course now, most of the kits I come across already come with dome pistons of some type.

gene bender · May 18, 2015

Realy removing a couple thous will lower compression

John M · May 18, 2015

The Rotella is a low ash oil, despite what others here say, and will work just fine.

rankrank1 · May 18, 2015

Do keep in mind as you build this motor for more and more hp the need to feed it with gas will only increase which could be depressing when it does not sip fuel like one of your diesels.

A stock m is not too terrible on gas (at least mine is not). However, once you sart going super level hp, or more yet 400 level hp, or more yet 450 level hp then the fuel use really adds up. The hp levels you are wanting are already above the IH model 450 levels and the fuel use will be above 450 levels too.

Just something to think about...would hate to see a person dump a small fortune in a build and then not enjoy since it drinks gas.

Farmall43 · May 18, 2015

I run a 6' brush hog all day with a Farmall 340that is stock. less than 40 HP. The M should be just fine at stock. If you want a little more HP get it from the heard. Not the block.

CenTex Farmall · May 18, 2015

First, don't get fixated on a horsepower "number". Remember that engines make Torque and the HP is derived from a math formula
using torque and RPM. HP numbers can be juggled simply by measuring the torque at a different RPM, making one tractor seem a lot
stronger on paper than it actually is. A good running M is no weak sister and has plenty of low end grunt. Peak torque at 900-
1000 rpm. Focus on making sure the work done is quality.

That said, you want to have a gasoline type head for your build. There's one for gas, one for kerosene and one for distillate.
The one for gasoline has the smallest chamber for more compression. What is the part number on the head you have? Another route
to go is get a head from a gasoline 450. With either had you can run a 450 cam which will help some. Your old cam and lifters
will have some degree of wear anyway. You will want the domed pistons. Firecraters are the best design but no longer made. They
can be found but can cost quite a bit more. The stepped head pistons are widely available and will work fine. Don't get carried
away with compression as too much in a working tractor will lead to detonation.

pete 23 · May 18, 2015

Red Power offers a crater style piston near identical to IH original fire crater. With a gasoline head and that piston you will be right at 50 horse power. You do need to use a advance in the distributor with maximum advance at full throttle of 22 degrees. More than that and you can expect detonation under full load. As far as low ash oil, IH has very good oil. Modern diesel oils are listed as low ash but you have to know what additives are not used or reduced to truly compare one low ash oil to another. Not an easy task. Not something that is going to blow engine up one way another but may very well cause spark plug and valve problems along with excess build up on the hotter portions of the pistons.

Chance M · May 18, 2015

(quoted from post at 03:09:12 05/18/15) Do keep in mind as you build this motor for more and more hp the need to feed it with gas will only increase which could be depressing when it does not sip fuel like one of your diesels.

A stock m is not too terrible on gas (at least mine is not). However, once you sart going super level hp, or more yet 400 level hp, or more yet 450 level hp then the fuel use really adds up. The hp levels you are wanting are already above the IH model 450 levels and the fuel use will be above 450 levels too.

Just something to think about...would hate to see a person dump a small fortune in a build and then not enjoy since it drinks gas.

Very good point...sometimes the simplest reasoning can be over looked by the Tool Man Taylor mentality I have....grrr grrr grrr
..lol, thx....cuz your right, I'm gonna use this machine and will be bummed when it takes 25 gallons to cut my pastures, haha!

Chance M · May 18, 2015

(quoted from post at 07:41:11 05/18/15) First, don't get fixated on a horsepower "number". Remember that engines make Torque and the HP is derived from a math formula
using torque and RPM. HP numbers can be juggled simply by measuring the torque at a different RPM, making one tractor seem a lot
stronger on paper than it actually is. A good running M is no weak sister and has plenty of low end grunt. Peak torque at 900-
1000 rpm. Focus on making sure the work done is quality.

That said, you want to have a gasoline type head for your build. There's one for gas, one for kerosene and one for distillate.
The one for gasoline has the smallest chamber for more
compression. What is the part number on the head you have? Another route
to go is get a head from a gasoline 450. With either had you can run a 450 cam which will help some. Your old cam and lifters
will have some degree of wear anyway. You will want the domed pistons. Firecraters are the best design but no longer made. They
can be found but can cost quite a bit more. The stepped head pistons are widely available and will work fine. Don't get carried
away with compression as too much in a working tractor will lead to detonation.

Im gonna be pretty confident and say it is a distillate head. I'll get the number tomorrow and run it by you.

Scenario---domed piston overhaul, distillate head, keystone turbo kit, as I need a new intake/header anyways, so this be the time to get the turbo kit.

Do y'all think I will be safe on a hot summer day of brush hogging with this setup?

Otherwise I will just go back stock as I believe like said earlier, the stock m will be fine with my 6ft hog.

I'd like to know the torque figures on this engine. I've built a couple small block fords and it amazes me how much heavier this engine is. Ive never been into a diesel, but this engine in my imagination, would sem to be built as heavy as a diesel. Fine peace of engineering.

CenTex Farmall · May 18, 2015

I've only seen the turbo on M's at the tractor pull and I don't have any experience with that conversion. Of course you can get
away with some things on a short tractor vs. building some real heat on a working tractor. If I were to go the turbo route on an
M I would add (at least until I got it tuned) an EGT, O2 sensor and possibly a knock sensor. I would be inclined to go with the
flat tops for the turbo. I don't remember if the keystone setup has a wastegate or is free floating nor how much boost it is
intended to supply. I'm certain the Keystone folks will have all the info you need.

Keep in mind all that extra power is still going through an 11" clutch that was intended for 30-some horsepower. Farmall went
with a 12" clutch when the Super M came out. I'm not saying it won't work but should be looked at closely for condition.

Are you also going through the trans/rear? You'll at least want to check out the condition of the coupler between the clutch
shaft and the trans input shaft assembly. Check the input shaft assembly for noticeable play as well as the transmission pilot
bearing. Those two areas need to be in good shape.

They did pour a lot of iron for these things. Manufacturing philosophy was different back then and focused on longevity and
repairability more than shareholder's stock price.
Take a look at the engine from an MD some time. FIVE main bearings and even larger journals! 9 series gas and diesels are the
exact same design but larger still. Iron topped with more Iron.

Oh, and in the reply above, Pete is saying that firecrater repro's are available. That's good to know and something I need to
look into myself.

Chance M · May 19, 2015

Yeah, think I'm just gonna go with the domed piston overhaul and call it good, oh and put on an electronic ignition. I'm bad about over doing, lol. But, getting better with age, haha. I'll be wise on this one. Thx to you guys input I must say.

Yes, I'm going over the entire tractor. Each piece blasted and painted/ repaired,/rebuilt etc. When I picked this tractor up, the tranny didn't sound good. Pulling it a mph you could hear gear noise badly, so I'm sure I'll find some fun stuff there. Needs brakes too, but overall the tractor very good. Just operating systems where neglected it appears, lol.. The input shaft has major play so....yeah I'm stoked to buy bunch of bearings and gears.

I checked out the red power kits Pete was talkin of and cannot find them. I found the site but cannot order and the contact info is only them wanting dealer info and they will respond, no phone number. Searched for someone that sells red power, nuthin. I dunno. :roll: :roll:

Chance M · May 19, 2015

I'm really thinkin just hittin the button on these tisco made overhaul kits that YT carrys?!.

Farmall M engine rebuild...calling all guru's plz.

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