1256 Repower??

A friend came over asking about a 1256 with a rod bearing failure and crankshaft damage. After some research I have come to realize that it uses a 407 turbocharged engine.

It seems that the 407 is somewhat unusual.. Should he be seeking used crank options, used engine options or attempt to repower with a later model engine?

What applications used the 407 for a possible transplant? I noted that the 856 also used a 407, but I assume being that it was NA, that it likely has different internals?

I read all of the archived posts that I could find on the subject.. It seems that the 466 turbocharged can be installed with the use of 66 or 86 frame rails plus flywheel and clutch from the same tractor?

What are the best options here? I'm sort of "in the know" on the green but not very sharp on the red. I'm sure he would appreciate any advice.

Thanks

Why not resize the rods and turn the crank? Takes time and money to try and reinvent the wheel. I have gone through a few of these engines and never thought of them to be any more expensive to fix than any other. Any large diesel engine that needs repair costs money. Fix what you got. Its not like this engine was a lemon . They had a good track record. Just my opinion. Al

The 856 did use a 407.But that's about where it stops.More cooling cap,oil jets to cool HOT pistons other stuff.....Fix what what you have.In the long run,still the best option.By the time you BUY a good used 414,436,466 plus all the other stuff,you will have WAY MORE money in the beast('franken tractor').Again,fix what you have.Then you will still have a good "sellable" tractor when you are finished.

Wow, Hold the phone, did u mean a 466, Thats a very short lived engine,the 436 is acceptable but not the 466. It was too long a stroke to run at 2400 RPM, to much piston travel, and eventually the rods bent a sniff, and it was all over, The rod and main bearings are marginal to boot! The ideal engine to replace the 407, would be a 429, out of a 4100 or 4156, That my honest opinion.It would be more work, i understand that!!!

(reply to post at 18:13:58 02/17/15)

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Wow is right
What planet are you from
We ran 466 engines in most all our tractors of the
Heavy farming years
Never had a problem
Some of the 1466 tractors had 10000 hours
It's a good engine
But I would repair the 407

(reply to post at 18:13:58 02/17/15)

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Hey sorry
I thought you were knocking the 436
I miss understood
I agree the 466 is a bust
Doug

(reply to post at 18:13:58 02/17/15)

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Hey sorry
I thought you were knocking the 436
I miss understood
I agree the 466 is a bust
Doug

Maybe I'm missing something here, but DT466 engines have been in production for, what, 38 years??
I don' think they're really much of a problem child....

Ben

1. Fix the DT407.

2. Yeah, the DT466 has been in production for 38+ years, and running at WAY more than 2400 RPMs in trucks... Never heard of this DT466 "problem" before?

The 466 sure did work out well in crawlers, wheel loaders, OTR trucks and school buses.

Thanks to all for the help. Where would you guys recommend that he procure a crankshaft?

Well in my area there were a lot of 4366 with 8 -18.4x38 tires on them, they wouldn't spin a wheel if they tried, they had plenty of tire and weight. So the engine had to give , trust me they did not stand up in that chassis,in our area, in the 2+2, on lighter loads maybe they did, If you want the names and phone number of my neighbors that had,them with that engine, and went down multiple times,let me know. The truck 466 got switched over to the B series engine also. I agree fix the 407, they were a lot better than a 466

The 466 in a 4 wheel drive 4366 was over matched no doubt. Way too much traction for that engine. They all got turned up way over powered and with that traction, the engine got not breather. When you melt manifolds off tractors you know you are not going to have engine life. In the 4386 they put an intercooler on and much larger radiator. That helped a lot but still not the answer. If you left the 34 inch rubber on it wasn't too bad. One of my customers ran both, and never had an engine failure but he cooled it so to speak. They needed at least 600 cubes for that size tractor.
The 4 wheel Deeres were not much better. The local dealer had one mechanic worked all one year putting the updating packages in the ones they sold. When I worked there in my later years a lot of engines had been swiched to the 50 series or 55 series. Never got all those Deere's straight. They switched a couple when I worked there also. Burned a few Deere engines also when the camshaft gear running the oil pump wore out. That was one of the big points to check on inspections and sold a few camshafts . Never ran out of work at Deere dealer either. Even went through a 4440 rear end with a busted differential carrier. Just like the IH models did. It had an major improvement package to put in it also. Most money I personally ever put in a tractor in my 41 years working on IH, Case or Deere.

So, you're saying that the engine didn't hold up when you put oversize tires on it, weighed it down, and worked it like a tractor twice its size?

Think about that for a second: It failed when it was ABUSED.

IH and its dealers probably oversold the tractors as more than they were, but the farmer should have looked at things and recognized that he was buying a 200HP (at most) 4WD tractor, not a 350HP Steiger.

Instead, they complained because they tractor was "gutless." The dealer's answer was to turn up the injection pump for more HP, which just made the problem worse.

As soon as you chop that 1256 up you will cut it's value in half. Yes the 361/407s are expensive to fix but they are very reliable engines.

mkirsch, I am pretty sure the 18.4 x 38 was a factory tire size, If the pumps were turned up, I cant say for sure. But i did ride in two of the tractors, they were pulling 7-18's and 8-16, what size field cultivators they had, they were big,35-40 ft guessing ! The one thing i noticed the cab was so quiet, i couldnt get a feel for what the engine was doing, but according to the tach, it was pulling down a lot of the time. The other thing was they never punched a hole in the block ! The bottom line was the rods were bent,They first noticed the bearing wear pattern, was not normal! They would fail between 900 and 1050 hours, A school bus, and a tandem delivery truck, or a payloader is a much lighter application !

Ya know the one thing that i have learned in the fiftysix years of working on cars trucks tractors bulldozers is that they never had enough POWER , turn them up . I am just a guilty as any and i have turned up the wick on just about everything i have ever owned , I have had some real fire breathers over the years and they will only stand somuch before you find the weak link . being it the engine or in the drive line something is going to give . There is nothing wrong with the 466 if you do not get carried away with the wrench . and you have some common sense . Ya want to see a DT 414 running that is turned up and has been living this way for the last twenty five years that it has been in our stable come set your donkey in the seat of it and latch on to our five shank ripped and go six inches down into the clay and see , now that six inches of clay layes eight inches to ten inches below the top soil and even with the duals on you can break them loose in first high . THE DMI block man said we would never be able to pull that tool with 7.5 inch tiger points proved him wrong . and yes we are turning that engine at 2850 RPM . I'll let ya know when the pin fall out of that hand grenade . There are just some people that can destroy and anvil with a rubber hammer in five seconds and each and everything they touch is junk when they are done . Now as to engine swaps i do not mind doing them as long as it is easy and the cost and benefits are worth the effort . The easy swaps are on the OLIVERS , but you still end up with more then the tractor is worth . you may be installing a better engine with more pony power BUT you still don't have the rest of the tractor to be better as you still have the factory hyd.system that is to low on GPM and pressure for todays needs , Yes a Cummins repower on them is almost a drop in and bolt up deal , working on one of them now and maybe one more before spring . But we still have and OLD carcase under it. The guy with the 407 problems is ahead of the game to fix what he has and move on less money less time and still have a good tractor for her time.

(quoted from post at 16:43:01 02/17/15) A friend came over asking about a 1256 with a rod bearing failure and crankshaft damage.
What are the best options here? I'm sort of "in the know" on the green but not very sharp on the red. I'm sure he would appreciate any advice.

Thanks

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Unless the crank is really beat up bad, it should be capable of a re-build. Magna-flux to be sure it isn't cracked before re-building it unless it's obviously broken. Sounds to me like it's a common engine, so even though the other internal parts are no doubt different, the crankshaft might be the same on many versions of the 407.