Ever break sleeve on start up after O/H?

Mitch D

Member
Overhauled a 656 gas, sleeves all pushed in equally smooth. Had it running maybe 5 minutes total playing with the timing and bam it locked up and killed itself but still would crank over afterwards. Pulled the oil pan to find chunks of sleeve in it, get the top end off and pull #6 sleeve and it has about 2 inches broke off the bottom.
What do you think caused this? Bad sleeve? Cracked it pressing in? Something in the block?

We are all scratching our heads here....
Thanks guys
 
Is it possible that you have the connecting rod attached, facing the wrong direction? Is the rod cap facing the same direction as the others? You may have the piston facing the correct direction, but if the piston was installed on the rod facing the wrong direction, then the rod would be in wrong. Just a guess. I did that on a V-6 but caught the mistake before I started it.
SDE
 
The sleeve could very well have had a flaw/manufacturing defect, or could have even been dropped and cracked sometime before installation.
 
The other possibility that comes to mind is an improperly fitted piston ring. Maybe the ring was too tight and bound up when it warmed.
 
Well if they PUSHED in then there is your problem as you DID NOT READ the bore class stamped on the deck of the block and you bought a off the shelf rebuild kit and they ONLY Fit bore class A & B not C & D .
 
I wondered what those letters stamped on the block were for. I will have to check when I go back to the shop as it was just a generic Red Power brand kit from All States Ag Parts. What is the difference between A/B and C/D?
As far as going in they where equally tight on the press would be a better way to say it...
 
The letters on the deck of the block read D D E C D E with the broken #6 sleeve coming out of the E hole.
 
Had this same thing happen on a 656D about 30 years ago. Started it up, ran it under light load for a while, then, while grinding a batch of feed it suddenly stopped. Found the sleeve in the oil pan broken up like gravel. Sleeves went in very tight, probably cracked it.
 
Were you tapping on the sleeve or using a plate or hardwood block? Counterbore cleaned out good? Use a blowgun just before bottoming?
 
The bores are what is called a select fit. The assembly line workers used sleeves from the supply chain that varied over a range, the holes were stamped for a ~match to that range and selected to be correct. It was less expensive than machining to .0002" on both native bore, and sleeve. It does make getting it right difficult. Several options exist.
Using a custom sleeve: Several fabricators are listed here:Another company that produces custom sleeves for performance applications is EZ-Slider Cylinder Liners, a division of Quaker City Castings. Brent Boyle says custom sleeves represent about 90 percent of their current business. “We make all kinds of sleeves for all kinds of racing, including truck and tractor pulling. We have our own foundry and make our own sleeves here in Salem, OH. Ductile iron is our most popular sleeve material, but we also have a couple of customers who want sleeves made of compacted graphite for use with compacted graphite blocks.”

Boyle says they key to making performance sleeves is keeping the tolerances extremely tight, especially with flange style sleeves. “Our customers tell us what they want, and we build the sleeve to their exact specifications. Turn around time is usually less than a week, and sometimes we can ship them finished sleeves within a couple of days.”

Dave Metchkoff with LA Sleeves says his company’s focus is also on the performance market. “In the 1970’s, the repair sleeve business was severely impacted by inexpensive imported sleeves. In the 1990s, another invasion of cheap sleeves nearly wiped out everybody who was making sleeves in the U.S. But tolerances were an issue with many of these imported sleeves. So our company made a comeback by producing high quality sleeves for the performance market.”

Metchkoff admits his company’s sleeve prices are higher than most importers due to their high quality materials and tolerances. “Instead of using nickel in our cast and ductile iron, we add more chromium to improve wear resistance and strength. We also offer surface coatings and cryogenic treatments if a customer wants it.”

Metchkoff says that one of the myths of installing dry sleeves in blocks is that you have to use CNC equipment to machine the block. “That’s not true – unless you are converting a block to wet liners. We used to make wet liners for some sport compact applications, but have moved out of that market because we feel there are too many installation issues. The sleeves can leak, and in sand rail racing, block flex pulls the sleeves apart from the block. We now make a stepped dry sleeve that works great in these high horsepower engines.”

Using Lock-tite Sleeve and bearing retainer is also possible. Jim
 
For what it's worth the IH SC Service Manual states: "When furnished as service parts, the cylinder sleeves cannot be obtained separately but only in combination with matched pistons. When installing a new set of sleeves and pistons, do not interchange the pistons and sleeves or the piston pins, between the pistons." They indicate that on wet sleeves the rubber rings are to be installed first and then the outside of the sleeve coated with soap solution. They mention: "Insert the cylinder sleeves into the crankcase and HAND PUSH them into position. If the rubber sealing ring is accurately installed and not pinched, the sleeve should enter easily into its position."
I have no idea if it really works that easily or this instruction applies to other models.
 
Well the pistons didn't stay with the sleeves they came in but in this modern day cheaply made world I don't see (not saying its not possible) there being a difference...
I should just stick to my JDs...
 

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