Little OT - Need Help with Lincoln Welder w/ Detroit Diesel

RTR · Dec 13, 2014

I really don't know where I should post this within the forum, but since I frequent here and know you guys are a big help I will just give y'all a chance to help me figure it out.

My grandfather has a Lincoln Welder with a Detroit 2-71 Diesel Engine that he bought used from U.S. Steel around 30 years ago. It was old then and it is old now. He has used it alot over the years building our sheds and such but as he has slowed down and with it being so big, he hasn't used it in around 10 years.....maybe a little longer. He says it is a 600 amp welder but I haven't found any like that online.

With it being sat up between 10-15 years, he wanted to get it and bring it down to the shop and start it up and let it run. It has always ran good and never gave any problems. He had it sitting up on the hill with a 3 gallon bucket over the exhaust (which had a rain cap) and it also has the side curtains covering everything. They went to change the oil in it and he said mostly clear water came out and that the oil and water filled up a 5 gallon bucket and ran it over!!! He said the radiator was full of antifreeze when he parked it and since it has been drained.

Where did all of that water come from???? He is very concerned that his favorite welder is ruined and can't figure it out

CenTex Farmall · Dec 13, 2014

That water just accumulated from condensation, the crankcase being vented to the outside allowing air exchange.

Being stored outside makes it a little worse because of wider swings in temperature.

The relatively large interior volume makes it more susceptible to this phenomenon.

Earlier this year I drained nearly two gallons of water out of an H that came from East Texas, a rather humid place itself. Two days later it was running well. Of course I dropped the oil pan and cleaned it up first.

That old detroit should be ok. Make sure the injector rack is free before starting as a "runaway" is your biggest threat. Have something handy to cover the intake with just in case.

RTR · Dec 13, 2014

What do you mean by runaway and with the injector rack being free? We thought about removing them and putting some MMO in the cylinders before trying to turn it over. ALso, do you think we would be safe to go ahead and put fresh oil in it and a new filter, or just turn it over first to see if it is stuck?

JimB2 · Dec 13, 2014

Go to youtube and search on run away detroit
diesel, there are a couple videos there.

The fuel rail in inject pump sticks wide open and
the only way to stop it is to block air flow into
the intake.

CharlieNJ · Dec 13, 2014

You could take off the side covers and check the piston rings through the scavenge ports, a little rust won't hurt, you can see if water came in through the intake or exhaust. See that the rings are free in the pistons, not rusted, if rusted soak 'em with fuel. Would be good idea to take the valve cover off and clamp a big vise-grip firmly on the rack, that way if the governor lets it run away you can shut it down with the rack. Best to change the fuel filters first, too. Fill them with fresh fuel.

RTR · Dec 13, 2014

UPDATE ......The machine is a Lincoln SAE 400 with a GM Detroit Diesel and we verified it isn't stuck. Can't find where it says 2-71 or a serial number.

We went ahead and took off the top and side covers. Do you all really think it was all condensation in the oil pan? We just don't know how it would have gotten in any way else. The radiator had been drained, but the upper and lower hoses were in bad shape so I decided to take them off to take with us to the parts store. The lower one was hard and had split (hence the drain) in it where it attaches to lower radiator. When I moved it there was still Green antifreeze in the hose and drained about a pint or two out. Probably sloshed in there when we moved the machine. We took off the fuel return hose from the top of the tank (it was rotten), and took off both fuel filters and the oil filter.

The oil filter has no markings whatsoever. The upper fuel filter said Hastings 906, and the lower one is a "sock filter" per what my grandfather called it. He is questioning the correctness of the 2 fuel filters.

About to go to Napa to try and get all the parts we need and get some batteries (it takes 2) . I still have to measure the battery tray area.

RTR · Dec 13, 2014

I also need to find out the part number for the Fuel Filters and the Oil Filter. The counter guy at Napa didn't know what a Detroit Diesel engine was and needless to say acted like he didn't have a way to look it up if it wasn't on his computer.

If anyone has the correct part numbers for the 2 fuel filters and the oil filter for this machine, I would apprecieate it. Don't know if it matters or not, but keep in mind the engine is on a welding machine. In the meantime, I will be trying to find the numbers myself.

504 · Dec 13, 2014

Or run!!

RTR · Dec 13, 2014

I know everyone loves pictures, so I thought I would post several. Here is the old girl! Some more on the story, not sure how "accurate" the online source I found was, but I THINK this is a 1959 model. Also, the story is that a contractor/company left it behind on a job at U.S. Steel where he worked and it sat in a field for a couple of years. My grandfather saw it out there and bought it from U.S. Steel for $75 about 30-35 years ago!!! Never had any problems with her but the exciters. We are gonna try to straighten the tin work up, since the tree limb fell on it a few years back.

RTR · Dec 13, 2014

I did notice that when taking the pictures, that the oil filler spout on the valve cover was bent (probably from tree damage) and that it caused the valve cover to be split open. Think that could have caused the water to get in?? Regardless, we are going to remove the valve cover and he is going to weld that up. to fix it.

RTR · Dec 13, 2014

Also, thought I would mention that he built the trailer that it sits on when he got the welder. That welder was used to build all (or most) of the buildings you see in the background on his property back in the 70s and early 80s.

Janicholson · Dec 13, 2014

That rusted cracked valve cover will let all the water in that you removed. If it rusted up the lower end, Free or not, it won't run long. If the level of water was lower than the crank, it could be OK!!! Jim

CenTex Farmall · Dec 13, 2014

Seeing that hole in the valve cover... I believe that was most of your problem! If that belonged to me, I would drop the oil pan and clean it out. Probably some pretty nasty emulsion in there and you don't want that going through your bearings.

I googled 2-53 and found some pictures a lot like yours so I believe it's a 53 series. Start there for filters. Look for someone in your area who rebuilds construction equipment or rebuilds truck and equipment engines. They may be able to help you find something. In our area, NAPA is a waste of space.

Really neat looking rig. Looks like a good combo for a welder.

george md · Dec 13, 2014

It's a 2-71 , 71 series have hand wheels on the

valve cover , 53 series have screws around the

outside edge like a car engine.

Also you do not have runaway detroit -- you

have over speed engine and runaway operator.

george

Jim Becker · Dec 14, 2014

The "2A" serial prefix says it is a 2-71, no question about that.

henryv11 · Dec 14, 2014

There is a forum (WeldingWeb.com)go there and they
will tell you all about your welder. Those folks
love to talk about welders and welding

CenTex Farmall · Dec 14, 2014

I stand corrected.

Should be able to find 71 series parts with a little searching.

Jon Hagen · Dec 14, 2014

While you have the valve cover off for repairs, check the injector control rack and injectors for free movement all the way from closed to full power.
The rack levers move the injector control rods( looks like a rod with gear teeth cut in the side, sticking out of the side of the injector.). The most common reason for runaway of a Detroit diesel that has set unused for a while, is rust sticking an injector in the wide open position. Full travel on those control rods is from almost touching the injector body when closed, to extending out about 2 inches when in the wide open position. The rack must move smoothly with no sticking.

RTR · Dec 14, 2014

Ok...moved it in the shop and got a little bit of work done. I still need to figure out the part numbers for the filters and gaskets.

Here are some pictures draining the diesel tank, removing fuel filters, etc..

RTR · Dec 14, 2014

(reply to post at 09:09:18 12/15/14)

Drained 9 gallons of diesel, finished draining the oil (1 pint in pan), took off the valve cover to be repaired and inspected the head.

RTR · Dec 14, 2014

The throttle and governor linkages seem to move like they should.

RTR · Dec 14, 2014

The rusty crud wiped up clean with little effort using a rag, brake cleaner, and compressed air. Once I was done cleaning up the head, I poured about a half-gallon of the diesel fuel that was in the tank over the head and let it drain through the oil pan to a bucket below. I did this twice. Then I replaced the oil plug and poured another 1/2 to 1 gallon of diesel and I'm letting that sit in the oil pan for a couple days to hopefully clean things up. My grandfather doesn't want to remove the oil pan for the fear of leaks and trying to find a gasket. I think it looks pretty good so far.

caterpillar guy · Dec 14, 2014

Any Detroit Allison dealer should be able to get any part you need for that engine including gaskets and filters. If not try these guys D&D truck & trailer parts in Owosso MI 989 743 5707. They are good parts men. Richard is from an old Union 76 distributor. They had trucks of their own so that is how they got into the parts business.

n9lhm · Dec 15, 2014

Get a CO2 fire extinguisher and have it handy when you try to start that thing so you can snuff it out if it runs away.

David G · Dec 15, 2014

RTR,

Is that a Hercules in there?

RTR · Dec 15, 2014

(quoted from post at 03:59:59 12/16/14) RTR,

Is that a Hercules in there?

In the welder? No, it is a Detroit 2-71. What would make you think Hercules. I have pictures on page 1 of this thread identifying it as a Detroit Diesel.

RTR · Dec 17, 2014

(quoted from post at 17:49:53 12/14/14) The "2A" serial prefix says it is a 2-71, no question about that.

Been on the phone with a Lincoln Repair & Restoration Shop and (2) Detroit Diesel Dealers Parts Departments. I can not get any information for the parts I need for this engine. I have the part number for the oil filter from the old one, but I am unsure if the fuel filters are correct as they were "sock filters". THe last Detroit parts guy said the engine is obsolete and the probably will not be able to get parts for it but he is waiting to hear back from his parts rep (1-2 days).

Does anyone out there have any other suggestions? I was hoping to find some parts by Saturday so we can hopefully get her back together and going again. I was going to order off of Rockauto what I could and get the rest at the local parts store.

I need part numbers for: Valve Cover Gasket, Upper Fuel Filter, Lower Fuel Filter, Oil Filter, fuel line, fuel tank vent line, oil pressure line, upper radiator hose, and lower radiator hose.

Granted I could buy universal parts for most of it, but the lines have threaded fittings and if I could get original style that would be best.

RTR · Dec 18, 2014

(quoted from post at 02:44:51 12/18/14)

(quoted from post at 17:49:53 12/14/14) The "2A" serial prefix says it is a 2-71, no question about that.

Click to expand...

Been on the phone with a Lincoln Repair & Restoration Shop and (2) Detroit Diesel Dealers Parts Departments. I can not get any information for the parts I need for this engine. I have the part number for the oil filter from the old one, but I am unsure if the fuel filters are correct as they were "sock filters". THe last Detroit parts guy said the engine is obsolete and the probably will not be able to get parts for it but he is waiting to hear back from his parts rep (1-2 days).

Does anyone out there have any other suggestions? I was hoping to find some parts by Saturday so we can hopefully get her back together and going again. I was going to order off of Rockauto what I could and get the rest at the local parts store.

I need part numbers for: Valve Cover Gasket, Upper Fuel Filter, Lower Fuel Filter, Oil Filter, fuel line, fuel tank vent line, oil pressure line, upper radiator hose, and lower radiator hose.

Granted I could buy universal parts for most of it, but the lines have threaded fittings and if I could get original style that would be best.

I've signed up and posted on the "welding web" forum, so maybe those guys will have some input on finding parts. Thanks for everyone's help on here!

Jim Becker · Dec 18, 2014

I just tried a search for "Detroit diesel 271" on eBay. It got several hits that may help you out. Note seller trader9278. His listings say "CALL STEPHEN AT K & S DIESEL WITH ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS ITEM 504.362.2371"

Looks like they can help you out.
http://www.ksdieselparts.com/

RTR · Dec 18, 2014

(quoted from post at 22:43:43 12/18/14) I just tried a search for "Detroit diesel 271" on eBay. It got several hits that may help you out. Note seller trader9278. His listings say "CALL STEPHEN AT K & S DIESEL WITH ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS ITEM 504.362.2371"

Looks like they can help you out.
http://www.ksdieselparts.com/

Thank you so much Jim. I called them and the parts guy was so good he was spitting out part numbers before I finished my sentence. I told him I had a GM 2-71 engine in a welder. He said "oh, a Lincoln SAE 400?" I said yes. I told him I needed a Valve Cover Gask...."5184484"....et. He said it so fast I had to get him to repeat it. Didn't need to look anything up! I spit the other numbers out on the top of his head too! Now the Detroit Diesel people acted like the IH parts people do....they don't even know it existed! haha.

rhtx55 · Dec 18, 2014

Good parts men are hard to find. Tip him well !!

Little OT - Need Help with Lincoln Welder w/ Detroit Diesel

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