I think my Farmall Super M tranny is Frozen (Ice)

chappie

Member
I've had this Super M for 7 or 8 years. I have never had a problem in winter. A few weeks ago, I drove it about 7 miles each way, to a welding shop to get the loader welded, and it worked fine, except I was having trouble getting it into 4th and 5th gear. But Rev 1 - 2 - 3 worked fine. (I rarely use 4 & 5 gear).

The weather was still warm when I took it to the welding ship. Since then, the weather has gotten cold, and down as far as 8 deg. (F) a few times. About a week ago, I drove it and moved a round bale, late at night, when the temperature was in the low 20's. I had no problems. I parked it, and have not used it since.

Yesterday I decided to put the tire chains on, and found that it will not move. The engine starts and runs, as long as I keep the clutch depressed. If I let the clutch out (engage it), the engine just kills. I tried this several times and revved the engine up. There is not even a slight inclination to the tires trying to turn.

Since I already had that problem with the 4 & 5th gears, the first thing I did was remove the shift lever. The three slots are correctly lined up and centered. (I *CAN* SHIFT FROM REV - 1 - 2 - 3, BUT NOT 4 - 4 *NOW). [Same as before]. But no matter what I do, I cant get the tractor to move, or even let the clutch out in neutral, or the engine kills.

I'm suspecting that the tranny must be frozen with ice?????? I sure dont know what else could cause this? But like I said, this has never happened before in winter, and it's been much colder other years!!!!

I'm posting this to ask several things.

1. Is there a way to know for sure if the problem is ice?

2. If there is ice in the hydraulic fluid/pump, will that also cause the engine to kill? (If so, is there a simple way to unload that pump, without removing it?

3. Does the Tranny and Differential share the same fluid?

4. If it's frozen, what is a good and safe way to thaw it? (I cant move it into a garage... No heated garage, and I CANT MOVE IT ANYHOW!

5. Once I get it thawed, and drain the old fluid, someone told me I will need to fill it with clean oil, run it for a short time, drain it again, and fill it again. I believe it takes 13 gallons. That fluid costs over $16 per gallon. That will cost around $230 (with tax) for EACH fill. If I have to fill it ONCE, so be it, but is there another way to clean out the water without doing it twice? $460 is not easy to come up with! (It's sold in 5 gallon buckets).

Thanks in advance for all help. I think in the morning I'm going to carefully remove the drain plug and see if there is ice behind it.

PS. I have had a magnetic engine block heater on it for 20 hours, but that dont seem to generate enough heat. (The temps have been around 10 deg (F).
 
Like you said towards the end, I'd remove the plug and start there too see if there is ice.

Does the tractor sit outside all year? It's possible water got in somehow.

If it is froze I'd get a knipco heater of some sort and point it towards the rear end, throw a tarp over the tractor to help contain the heat.
 
well remove the diff drain plug and see what you have. either ice or milky oil... or clean oil... as it can be stuck in 2 gears at once.
 
I/we used to use an old 55 gallon drum cut down enough to slide under a diesel engine. Put a bag of charcoal in and light it up. We did this to get a tractor started.

No reason you couldn't thaw out a trans this way.

Trans and diff share the same oil. Once you get it thawed out and drained I use 5 gallons of diesel and run the tractor slow and easy enough the get everything rinsed. Drain the diesel then add your oil. No reason to waste oil that way.






If it's a belly hydraulic pump it's possible its froze up also and killing the engine. But due to the fact it's a different fluid and separate from the trans, I doubt that's the issue.
 
(quoted from post at 19:15:41 11/27/14) well remove the diff drain plug and see what you have. either ice or milky oil... or clean oil... as it can be stuck in 2 gears at once.
dont need to waste oil. just use any used stuff thats clean or filtered. even add 2 gallons gear oil to the 3 gallons of diesel. you viscosity to carry out the junk , espessially if going to drive it. diesel is a useless lube for gears and brgs.
 
Cheap and easy way to melt ice is a hog pan full of charcoal and a tarp wrapped around the tractor.
 
If frozen (probable), heating the rearend and tranny is best. Putting tarps over the tractor and using a portable kerosene heater (looks like a jet engine on a fuel tank) will do it easily. It does not need to be huge if a tarp is used, be careful to keep the tarp from overheating (poly tarps are not best for this as they can easily melt) placing the heater about 4 to 5 feet away from the casting, behind the tractor will be pretty safe. Once it is unfrozen, the water will drain out first (if you do not drive it). Once it is drained, and the level is checked to be even 2 inches below the check plug, you can drive it. (it was the oil that you were using and won't hurt anything) There are 2 drain plugs one centered on the rear housing, and one at the trans. Both must be drained. (One fill place on the platform fills both)
There is no need to put two fillings of oil in it.
80-90 GL-4 oil should be used, shop for it, it should not be that expensive. The level check plug should be near the clutch pedal shaft. Jim
 
I had the same problem with my Super M a couple winters ago. After sitting several weeks with temps in the single digits I discovered the rear end had locked up solid. When I was able to drain it the following spring I got several gallons of crystal clear water before the old oil began to appear.

I flushed the rear end with 5 gallons of diesel, let it drain overnight then refilled with fresh 85W-90. Haven't had a problem with it since.

To thaw out yours, recommend to use a torpedo heater or charcoal burner as other suggest. It'll take several hours of heating - there's a LOT of iron, water and oil that's gotta be thawed out!

Regarding a source new gear oil, SHOP AROUND! Last I checked Autozone and TSC both offered 85W-90 in 5 gallon buckets for about $59.
 
I had the same thing happen, put a magnetic heater on bottom of transmission. The water will be in the lowest place.
 
Others have already answered your question. I will only add that I have had this happen twice and the most recent was the 300U which froze up in the front yard one year ago. I was going to heat it and move it but I came home and found it completely covered in red and green lights with a plastic Santa standing next to it. Then we got a mess of snow and, well...I charged the battery and drove it out of there in April. If I dropped dead in the front yard in December my daughter would string lights on me and call the authorities in the Spring.
 
Had this problem b on a MM U and a wd45 allis I have. Its a hazard of obtaining your machinery in fence rows. Tried torpedo heaters that I use to unthaw semi's on th he side of the road. 175,000 btu diesel burners. No luck. I stuck a magnetic block heater on the bottom of the rear end over night problem solved. In your case I would say transmission because mine were fine with the transmission in neutral. I took them in and flushed them with diesel after they were good and warm. If it kills it as soon as you let off th he clutch with the transmission in neutral the counteract is probably frozen or all this was a waste because its stuck in two gears at once. Been there too.
 
It may not be frozen.If it still wont shift after warming,It may be stuck in two gears.Common problem on worn shifter rails.Lift out the shift lever.Look down into the tranny at the shift rails.They should be lined up.If one is out of place,there is your problem.Not ice.Whatever you do,DO NOT! rev the engine and pop the clutch to jar it loose! all you will do is destroy the trans.
 
I used a tarp and a brooder light a while back. I put that red bulb about an inch from the bottom of the rear casting and left it that way for 24 hours. I got over two gallons of water out. Once the water was out I put in a bottle of Heet and ran it with the old oil for a week. Then changed it. That reminds me - I need to crack the drains on a few old tractors tomorrow.
 
Well have you removed the drain to see if anything will come out. Its also possible you are stuck in two gears at once but first you can even stick a wire down the fill hole and that would also tell you if its froze.Do you know how to pull the shifter and then align the shift rails. So you need to find out if its froze or stuck into two gears and quit worryingabout a heater.
 
Sorry,I did not completely read your post before I answered.If I had,I would have seen you had already removed the shifter.
 
I have had that happen more then once on more then one tractor. Loosen the drain plug to the point where it can leak but not all the way out. Set some sort of heater under it and use a tarp etc to hold the heat in then watch what drips out. Also adding a bottle of heet to the fluid may help
 
I had a similiar thing happen to me.
One September I purchased a non working SM that I knew the engine was not frozen. Trailed it to the farm and towed it back to front of our barn and covered it up. In December I decided to tow it into a repair area. The rear wheels would not move. Decided something was definity wrong. Waited for a warm spell and removed the the rearend plug. About two gallons of water flowed out. Put the plug back in when oil started to flow out. Hooked a chain to her and she towed perfectly just like she did in September. Concluded that the water in the rear end had frozen and would not let the gears turn. This happened about five years ago and have not had any problems since. Hope this helps.
Thank You !
 
"I think in the morning I'm going to carefully remove the drain plug and see if there is ice behind it."

That is exactly where I would start. If you find it is frozen build a tent over it and use a space heater to thaw it. Try not to set the world on fire. In absence of a space heater I have used an open fire. Use with discretion.
 
That sounds like a good idea. I have used a pan with diesel fuel before but it is kinda hard to control. Dad used to use a pile of baler twine under the tractor. Sometimes the neighbors thought the barn was on fire!
 
I have had a couple freeze up too... but I never had one freeze that would kill the motor when I let out the clutch. Usually the water settles to the bottom and will freeze the bull gears in place, but rarely is there enough water in them to stop the top shaft from turning. I am guessing that your problem lies in that 4th and 5th gear. I would guess you are going to end up pulling the top cover off the trans and looking for a broken or bent shift fork.
 
if there is water in there, figure on having at least 5 empty 5 gallon buckets. one of my m's did that, and about 5 gallons of water came out before the gear oil. also when i pulled the drain plug there was a "goo" plugging up the drain hole. probe it with a screwdriver to clean the gunk out. keep the drain plug handy because when you get the hole open , it gushes out. if i remember, there is a second drain plug a little farther forward under the tractor also.
 
my 2 cents - there is nothing wrong with your gear lube. Just get the water out. Water and 90 wgt don't mix. The water will always settle to the bottom, and freeze. Get the water out and go.
Mark your calender to back those plugs out next September.
lets us know how you make out.
d
 
Had the same problem with w-6, did as above guys, but put in Amsoil 80-90 afterwards, no problem since then, but store inside now instead of out in cold.
 
The first thing that I would do is get a drain pan and set it under the drain plug and slowly take it out and if you have ice in put the plug back in and get some heat on it to thaw the ice. Once the water stops coming and oil comes quick put the plug back in and you should be good to go. If you haven't been using 4th and 5th gear I would say that you have some rusty rails, and depending how rusty they are you may or may not have to pull the top cover off to loosen them up. If it is working ok after you get the water out I would not worry about it till spring.

Bob
 
It may take several days to warm it up enough to get it loose. You have to consider the mass of the metal lube and water compared to the BTU's the heater puts out.

Keep it warm, pull the plug once a day and drain out all the water that has melted. Put the plug back in once grease comes out.
 
after reading all the new posts since my last reply, decided to pull drain plug on the old M I just bought for $600 bucks, got about a gallon of water, the oil itself looks really milky, probably time to put fresh oil in it. Probably won't use Amsoil this time tho, too expensive.
 
My 300 utility does the same thing,have to change the oil in the rear yearly because it gets water in the trans over a year...annoying to say the least,cant find where the water is getting in though...
 

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