farmall 400 loader tractor, better choice?

michaelr · Oct 23, 2014

I must have just bad luck picking tractor, I asked about a John Deere 2010, and then a Farmall 460. Response on both was that they were likely not the best choices. Because I have a budget, and can't go newer, I have to step back, which is leading me to perhaps a Farmall 400 with a 2001 IH loader. Am I making this too hard? I like the reliability of the letter series, but wanted a little more creature comfort and perhaps the 400 series would do it. By budget I am talking less than $4,000. Here are the pics of what I am thinking of now.

NY 986 · Oct 23, 2014

A 400 is not bad for what it is. They are generally reliable and not bad to operate. Just like a lot of other tractors from that era they do not have factory power steering. That could be remedied by finding a unit off a salvage tractor. Maybe some of the hydraulics suppliers have universal kits available. Years ago CharLynn offered such a kit through various suppliers.

Nebraska Cowman · Oct 23, 2014

The 400 is a rock solid loader tractor. But the hydraulic system is pretty weak. A PTO driven pump would make a way better outfit but would add considerable to the expense if you have to add a new pump to the mix. Also as mentioned the 400 may or may not have power steering. I'd keep looking to find a tractor loader combo that is ready to go. I have a Farmall 504 that is going to be available after Nov 1st. You could probably get into that cheaper than you can set up that 400.

michaelr · Oct 23, 2014

Oh man, you got to be kidding me, no power steering on the 400. dangit! Ok, does a Behlen or Charlynn unit from a Farmall M fit onto the 400?

DaninKansas · Oct 23, 2014

I'd take a 460 over a 400 any day as a loader tractor. The hydraulics are much better on the 460.

CenTex Farmall · Oct 23, 2014

You'll have to look at that particular tractor. Two of the 3 400's on this place do have power steering. They have the Behlen setup running off the factory pump. That said, at this later age most of those behlen units have gotten a little weak.
You guessed it in that the steering goes on just like it would on an M.

I don't think anybody poo-pooed your idea of the 460 with loader. It's true that the hydraulics are better and you have a lot more reservoir available.

Looking at a particular tractor, one of the codes on the tag will tell you if it has the standard volume or high volume hydraulic pump. The little book with that info is over at Dad's house or I would just tell you, but at least you're aware.

Nate V. IA · Oct 23, 2014

http://desmoines.craigslist.org/grd/4699341782.html
Oliver 770

http://desmoines.craigslist.org/grd/4680102309.html
Farmall 460

http://desmoines.craigslist.org/grd/4719379481.html
Farmall M

Lots of deals out there, anything in your price range is going to need some work sooner or later. Any loader tractor will beat using a pitchfork or shovel. If it were me I would try to find a good tractor with a junk loader on it to get me by and watch for a good deal on a nice loader, I got a Westendorf TA28 for my 706 for $1500, the bucket is sprung but its done everything I've asked.
Nate

michaelr · Oct 23, 2014

I appreciate the craigslist links. The 460 stands out, there was feedback about the transmission on the 400's being dubious, so I posted today about this 400, but learning that people prefer the hydraulic performance much better on the 460, and I can assume the 460 has factory power steering? Though I notice the M in that craigslist ad has power steering. Don't know a thing about Olivers.

michaelr · Oct 23, 2014

I notice there is a 10 horsepower difference at the drawbar between a 400 and 460, the 400 being 45hp at drawbar and 460 being 35hp at drawbar.

rustyfarmall · Oct 23, 2014

(quoted from post at 08:26:20 10/23/14) I appreciate the craigslist links. The 460 stands out, there was feedback about the transmission on the 400's being dubious, so I posted today about this 400, but learning that people prefer the hydraulic performance much better on the 460, and I can assume the 460 has factory power steering? Though I notice the M in that craigslist ad has power steering. Don't know a thing about Olivers.

Olivers are good tractors, but the aftermarket parts support is not nearly as good as it is for the Farmalls. For that reason, I would shy away from an Oliver.

DaninKansas · Oct 23, 2014

You have it backwards. The 400 is rated 37 HP at the draw bar:

http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/000/3/2/326-farmall-400.html

The 460 is rated at 45.3 hp at the draw bar.

http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/004/6/6/4663-farmall-460.html

A 460 has a 10 gallon hydraulic reserve and a 400 has a 3.5 gallon hydraulic reserve. The 400 weighs about 500 pounds more.

michaelr · Oct 23, 2014

I was looking at the Drawbar(tested). I see what you are saying about rated, but would guess the Nebraska tractor test results speak more accurately to its true abilities?

Charlie M · Oct 23, 2014

I read a lot of the responses on the 460 - what was there that said it wouldn't make a good loader tractor?

mkirsch · Oct 23, 2014

The Nebraska test results I'm looking at show a gas 400 and a gas 460 to be very comparable as far as HP.

In the 100% load drawbar test the 400 gas produced 45.34HP and the 460 gas produced 45.38HP. Right down the line, they are almost in perfect lock-step with each other as far as horsepower performance.

The 400 is a bit heavier tractor, by about 500lbs.

Given equal condition, I would be torn about which one I'd choose. Probably the 460 even though its hydraulic system is more complex, which means more to go wrong.

D beatty · Oct 23, 2014

The Nebraska tests in 1958 the 460 (3 tests) put out 35.95 drawbar HP on low end and on high side it put out 46.11 drawbar HP . The 400 in 1955 test put out 43.22 drawbar HP and in 1956 test it put out 48.12 drawbar HP.

michaelr · Oct 23, 2014

Someone commented about the transmission in the 460 not being stout enough.

D beatty · Oct 23, 2014

Have you ever thought of going a little bigger and get a 560?

michaelr · Oct 23, 2014

Yes, did think about it, they seem to price for about $1,000 more than a 460.

rustyfarmall · Oct 23, 2014

(quoted from post at 13:51:48 10/23/14) Yes, did think about it, they seem to price for about $1,000 more than a 460.

You could probably step up to a 706 or similar for not too much more money.

IAtractorKid · Oct 23, 2014

A 400 is a very good tractor...especially when optioned nicely. I know its a little higher than your wanting, but this is mine for sale below. You wont find one better equipped.

http://desmoines.craigslist.org/grd/4724785023.html

IH fan · Oct 23, 2014

If you are going to use the factory hydraulics, there is no comparison, the 460 will be much better. A 400 pump is basically the same as a Super M and if you rob 2 - 3 gpm for a PS, you don't have much left at less than full throttle. Most 460s have a 12 gpm pump (at rated rpm) and the 17 gpm was a option, although I'd bet most had the 12. Frame and rear end on the 400 is heavier, but for most loader applications, that shouldn't make too much difference. Ideally, a 460 with a 17 gpm pump would be the best, the 460 with the smaller pump next and the 400 last.

CenTex Farmall · Oct 23, 2014

Keep in mind that those tests are with new tractors. At this age there's going to be difference from one machine to another. Also how many rebuilds have been done and who knows what pistons they put in or how good the valve job is.

When you look at prospective machines in person look for one that appears to have been loved and maintained, even if it's been sitting awhile. I would be more concerned with how well the hydraulics work over how well it runs as typical loader work does not take high power.

The 460 trans is plenty stout for loader work unless you do something really dumb.

Charlie M · Oct 23, 2014

That's what I thought. IH had some issues with those and the 560's but there were some problems that developed with 400/450's also. Its my understanding they were fixed and if they haven't gone bad by now they weren't a problem then. Considering what you want to use it for I wouldn't consider the transmission to be any weaker that other IH tractors of that period.

caterpillar guy · Oct 24, 2014

With live PTO in the 400 you could run a prince PTO pump for the loader and have all the lift you can hold down.
This would leave the anemic hydraulics from the engine to run your power steering. Now you are all set. You could also do this on any tractor with live PTO leaving the tractor system to run just the tractor.

rustyfarmall · Oct 24, 2014

(quoted from post at 16:40:43 10/23/14) A 400 is a very good tractor...especially when optioned nicely. I know its a little higher than your wanting, but this is mine for sale below. You wont find one better equipped.

http://desmoines.craigslist.org/grd/4724785023.html

That really is not a bad asking price. If a guy started with just an M or a 400, bought new tires, bought a loader, and bought some wheel weights, he would quickly have more than that invested. Yours sounds like it's ready to go.

NY 986 · Oct 24, 2014

Hydraulics aside anybody I knew back in the day that had either a 400 or 450 side by side with a 460 preferred either the 400 or 450 in terms of torque. 264 or 281 CI or larger engine versus 221 in the 460. The neighbor years ago put off a tractor purchase till the 460 was out on the advice of the local IH dealer and regretted doing it till the day he sold out. The 460 seemed like it got parked a lot in favor of one the neighbor's other tractors. I am surprised it was never traded off. The 460 is lighter as it was an extension of the 350 tractor versus being built off the 450.

Whiskey Bent · Oct 24, 2014

I have had both a 400 and a 460 both with loaders at the same time. The 460 is much more comfortable and much smother running and I like the shifter location on the 460 better. I had pto pumps on both and is the way to go on any loader tractor. The 400 has much better usable power range but both are fine. I sold the 400. Keep looking there are lots of good deals out there

Harry Klever · Oct 24, 2014

D beatty, was that 5 hp gain because of the lighter wrist's pins ????? The 1, in wrist pins came out with serial number 31329.

W.Brehm · Oct 25, 2014

http://springfieldil.craigslist.org
Here a 460 gas with loader $2800 or OBO.

farmall 400 loader tractor, better choice?

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