What 12V battery fits in SA bat box?

WellWorn · Sep 21, 2014

To short circuit any debate beforehand, I know there are some here for whom 6v works great, and others for whom it's gospel. If this was a restoration trailer queen piece it would be kept at 6 with a generator, but it isn't - it does farm nearly every day, and increasingly more work during dark hours.

My rule is that if it works, don't mess with it - unnecessary changes merely take more time. The 6v system did ok for me for several years (after some skilled tweaking), but now the reg has quit again, and as I've read here, new replacements are too often not good. Even though the battery holds a good charge and seems to have plenty of reserve capacity, it's 6 years old and needs to be topped off with a charger when working with front and rear lights because even with the regulator field locked in (with a toothpick for testing) the gen barely keep up with 2 1105 bulbs (about 6A each) and 1 1133 (4+A), even at full rpm. Yes, the belts are tight enough and the genny brushes and springs are good.

It's time to change. Why? This system was not designed for the way I need to work. I need a higher output that will keep up with additional warning (flasher) lights on tractor and soon on hitched equipment, even at a lower rpm, which means going 12v. If IH was still making the SA/140 in the 1980's, what do you think it would be equipped with? A generator? 6V? We're 20some years beyond even that.

I have a 3 wire Delco I'm making custom (exact belt alignment) brackets for today, and the whole works will be painted IH 2150 red. The wiring harness will be replaced, with lacing. IOW, it won't be cobbled. The ignition is taken care of (until I go electronic), but I'm still lacking a proper sized battery.

The BCI #1 6v battery is 9" long, 6 3/4 wide, and 8 3/4 high. I know they make an 8v battery the same size, but I can't seem to find a 12v battery that fills the battery box nicely. I tried a #35 (9.31x6.75x9 l/w/h), but the handle tabs make it too wide by about a quarter inch. Most other 12v batteries are at least a quarter inch too wide, or too tall, or both. I've seen a few SA/SC's with a battery sitting open where the battery box should be, or some with a cobbled tin box mounted somewhere else, but that's not the way I'd like to go. I'd like to know what others have used.

Thanks
Well Worn

snoop · Sep 21, 2014

Check measurements of a Group 24 or a Group 24F for dimensions to fit your box and note also which post alignment would work easiest for you. A slim possibility would be a group 22.

I'm going "off fading memory" here, but hopefully this will get you started. Good Luck!!

Buddy Woodson · Sep 21, 2014

Group 26

TractormanNC · Sep 21, 2014

Hey WW,

Buddy is on it. The group 26 is the only 12 V battery I know of that will fit in the battery box.

Another poster mentioned a group 22 which is what I used to use but they are no longer available so far as I know.

The 140 went through at least 4 different electrical variations that I know of before ending production with 12 V neg ground and a Delco alternator.

gene bender · Sep 21, 2014

Now you can get those haolgen lites. I have some 6v ones on a B that pushes snow ect. Does that alt work when low engine speeds are used. I worked on a C that had one of those gens and it wouldnt charge at low RPMs i did other work and didnt fool with the charge system as it was a hy problem. Why wouldnt a batt for lawn mower work as your engine doesent need much push for starting. I have a friend who bored the block on a BN WENT TO 3 1/4 HI-DOME and other stuff dynoed 42 HP and he uses one for starting.

WellWorn · Sep 21, 2014

Thank you all very much. I'll be heading down town shortly to see if I can get a 26 (or 22). I already measured a 24, and it's still just that little bit too wide with the handles they now include, at least for a stock battery box.

WellWorn · Sep 21, 2014

(quoted from post at 16:33:10 09/21/14) Now you can get those haolgen lites. I have some 6v ones on a B that pushes snow ect. Does that alt work when low engine speeds are used. I worked on a C that had one of those gens and it wouldnt charge at low RPMs i did other work and didnt fool with the charge system as it was a hy problem. Why wouldnt a batt for lawn mower work as your engine doesent need much push for starting. I have a friend who bored the block on a BN WENT TO 3 1/4 HI-DOME and other stuff dynoed 42 HP and he uses one for starting.

Thanks for the info, Gene. Didn't know they made 6v halogens, but even then, they still pull significant current and aren't in line with the rest of the "real world" auto electrical stuff.

I'm guessing the 3 wire 63a rated alt with a small pulley does about 12a at idle - I can measure it later with a clamp on meter if you'd like. It's overkill, but it was on the back bench waiting for this opportunity. As for using a lawn tractor battery, as stated above I try not to change what works, and putting loop terminal cables on when the standard cables are plenty heavy and still good is just more work. I've already got enough to do on the old iron here to keep things going. But that big bore tweak sounds interesting for when I get a chance to put it into the shop for some 'down time'... Then I'd probably break the next weakest part(s)

mkirsch · Sep 22, 2014

Yeah, not for nothing but halogens only put out more light. They don't draw less Amps so you'd still have the problem of the generator not being able to keep up.

Take a look at LED lights, even after you get the conversion done. More light for less Amps, means less load on the alternator.

D beatty · Sep 22, 2014

I have a Farmall B with a 6 volt alternator that works great and it fit where the old generator fit with a little modification to mountings. It has no problems keeping up with both headlights on brite, 1 White tail light+ two red tail lights and a amber rotating light.

NNP · Sep 22, 2014

I think Group 26 was what I used to use too.
Can't remember, I too, just use cheapo lawn tractor batteries now in my 12v tractors..
right up thru my Super H. starts fine
The only one left with a car battery is my mid-January snow remover....
If the cables are still good, I just take the squeeze bolt out, adjust the jaws, slip em over the lawn tractor battery flange and put the bolt back thru. works fine.
On the neg terminal, I do prefer the loop cable end with a lawn tractor battery. a bolt, nut, then cable end, then wingnut gives me a battery quick-disconnect for when I park it.
(no live batteries allowed in my sheds.)

TheDurk · Sep 22, 2014

My 1966 140 was born 12 volt (with generator, now with Hitachi alternator) and whatever battery size was original went out of production sometime in the 80s or early 90's. The size that was supposed to replace it for general use just would not fit in the box. I then switched to using Ford Fairmount batteries which were about the only ones that fit. I'm currently running a group 26 Costco with Pertronix ignition and she starts better than new. Fits fine, but I have moved the cables from side to side a few times. I think the originals had center terminals (not on the corners but in the middle of the short sides).

rray · Sep 23, 2014

I can hear y'all laughing. I changed my 53 SA to 12 volt negative ground, added an alternator, changed to electronic ignition, and I use a lawn mower battery. It never turns over more than twice before it hits.

mkirsch · Sep 23, 2014

You don't have to change the battery cables to use a lawn mower battery either.

Just open the clamp mouth enough to fit around the lawn mower battery lug, and run the clamp bolt through all three and tighten down.

WellWorn · Sep 24, 2014

LOL on using the battery clamps over the lawn tractor battery lugs. I'm sure it works, but it just seems 'wrong'.

Because I do use the SA all year, including when it's well below 0 in the pre-dawn, plowing that 'solid rain' out the driveway, I did pick up a group 26 battery (Exide) at TSC. It's not a snug fit to the box like the #1, but close enough. I also saw a Group 22 battery on the shelf there - much thinner battery, fewer CCA, and more money. I'd rather not have to shim a battery in place to keep it from abrading the cables over time with daily use.

Yes, I'm considering LED's for the future, but they're still coming down in price / going up in intensity, and I'm not so concerned with the alternator keeping up now. I bought some LED 1156's a couple years ago, tried them and put them right back in the package. They put out about the same lumens as a regular 194. Would have taken them back, except I got them in a truck stop in Ohio... Newer ones are better, but still have a way to go, especially dollar per lumen.

Been too busy to get pictures of the project - just finishing 'supper' (and falling asleep over it). Now off to bed for a short few.

Thanks for good info.
Well Worn

TheDurk · Sep 24, 2014

(quoted from post at 03:00:16 09/24/14) LOL on using the battery clamps over the lawn tractor battery lugs. I'm sure it works, but it just seems 'wrong'.

Because I do use the SA all year, including when it's well below 0 in the pre-dawn, plowing that 'solid rain' out the driveway, I did pick up a group 26 battery (Exide) at TSC. It's not a snug fit to the box like the #1, but close enough. I also saw a Group 22 battery on the shelf there - much thinner battery, fewer CCA, and more money. I'd rather not have to shim a battery in place to keep it from abrading the cables over time with daily use.

Yes, I'm considering LED's for the future, but they're still coming down in price / going up in intensity, and I'm not so concerned with the alternator keeping up now. I bought some LED 1156's a couple years ago, tried them and put them right back in the package. They put out about the same lumens as a regular 194. Would have taken them back, except I got them in a truck stop in Ohio... Newer ones are better, but still have a way to go, especially dollar per lumen.

Been too busy to get pictures of the project - just finishing 'supper' (and falling asleep over it). Now off to bed for a short few.

Thanks for good info.
Well Worn

Yeah, I plow snow with my 140 and a lawn mower battery would not leave me with warm and fuzzies at 6AM on a winter morning at 20°F when I need to get out. If you want light, I run three (two forward, one rear) #4509 Par 36 100watt 4.5" bulbs in the stock 140 lights (upgraded harness). These are Piper Cub aircraft landing lights. At $8/110,000 candle-power I think it beats an 1156. The little 35A Hitachi 14231 puts out 420 watts and does just fine with these lights even at just above slow idle. Still shows C, a little bit, on the ammeter. At minimum idle, it barely goes into D.

Before someone chirps, the tractor has never been off my property since it was bought new in 1966. I'm not blinding anything except snowflakes and deer.

rray · Sep 25, 2014

Snow, I think I saw that stuff on tv once.

TheDurk · Sep 26, 2014

(quoted from post at 14:10:44 09/25/14) Snow, I think I saw that stuff on tv once.

Ahh, the joy of plowing snow on an open Farmall in a blizzard, you just don't know what you're missing!

RC78 · Sep 26, 2014

(quoted from post at 19:38:44 09/24/14)

(quoted from post at 03:00:16 09/24/14) LOL on using the battery clamps over the lawn tractor battery lugs. I'm sure it works, but it just seems 'wrong'.

Before someone chirps, the tractor has never been off my property since it was bought new in 1966. I'm not blinding anything except snowflakes and deer.

Click to expand...

I swapped the stock lights on my Oliver out for a pair of KC Dayliter's, 55W. Got tired of not being able to see. If I go off the property, I am either pulling someone out of a ditch, or plowing a driveway. Either way, Nobody seems to care.

Besides, how many freaking watts/lumens are the new tractors running? I had to pass one on the road in the dark a month or so ago. I couldn't see squat after I got past him. Also, what about the #@$%#$^$@%^%$ garbage trucks? The ones in Seattle run about 97 lights on them, and they are WAY bright. (and pointed in every direction..including into my eyes as I pass...cool huh?)

Speaking of landing lights, I wanted to put a pair of A-6E landing lights on my pickup for offroad use...but I needed a big inverter to do it, since they run at 115 Volts! lol

What 12V battery fits in SA bat box?

WellWorn

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