What all parts are needed to clone a 450 into a Super MTA?

My Dad and I have added a 450 into our collection. The 450 sheet metal has seen some better days. We were thinking about cloning it into a Super MTA. What all parts are needed? I know I would need the gas tank, hood, grille, steering pedestal, and throttle...but what else am I forgetting?

It's your tractor and your right. But I sit here asking myself why anyone would want to do that. The 450 is a beautiful tractor, why not make it into what it is?

Doing it because the tractor was cheap and a Super MTA is not. Sheet metal is shot and some missing.

It would still be a 450

Well...it would loose some of the usefulness of a 450 (hydraulics, fast hitch) without gaining the collectability of a genuine SMTA. A collector would spot the differences plus all the casting date codes would be wrong. A person could be sued/charged with fraud if he misrepresented a clone as genuine. To me it would be worth less than either tractor. Have you priced SMTA sheet metal and hydraulics?

Just to put the sheet metal on you need the radiator and the hydraulic unit under the fuel tank for hydraulics plus the hood and grill. Plus if you use the 450 transmission top cover you need to modify mounting for the hydraulic reservoir and steering post. 450 air cleaner vent hose opening will hit the SMTA hood unless some changes. Several more parts needed to make it look like a SMTA from 10 foot away. Unless the fuel tank, air cleaner and center steering support is changed one look at it is a giveaway its not a SMTA part. Same with the transmission top cover, clutch pedal and several other things.

Yes, and sheet metal for a 450 is going to be cheaper and easier to find than that for an MTA too. If it were mine I'd build myself a super nice 450. Everybody has MTAs. You think it will be worth more as an MTA but no, it won't because it won't have the correct numbers. It's worth more as a correct 450.

I have a sneaky suspicion that there are a few SMTAs out there that began life as a 400 or 450. Kind of like destroying a nice 300 or 350 to build a "rare" SHTA.

their are many hard to find parts that you need to turn that into a smta. the choke rod and throttle rod are longer than a late super m, the transmisson cover and clutch/brake pedals are differnt, ta and pto handle is differnt. if you want to keep live hyds you will need a differnt manifold to bolt to the pump and smta light bar is differnt than the m and sm. radiator,seat, battery box,rearwheels are also differnt. you could easliy spend 600-800 on finding smta hoods when i bet for less than 300 you could find decent 400/450 hoods. you can do what you want with your own tractor but you would be further ahead fixing it up as a 450.

You would need to find a complete SMTA parts tractor to get all the right parts.Around here SMTA,400,450 are all about equal in value.A butchered SMTA/450 crossbreed would be almost worthless.Keep it pure 100% 450.BTW,I am definitly NOT a member of the 'Correct Police'!

Yes...ask anyone who actually farmed with an mta, uncle Mike had one. There were good reasons why ih only built them one year. Mta whoopie dang doo almost as overpriced as a jd 4020. In both cases lots of better tractors available for less money.

Why would you want to do that? Just find the correct 450 parts. much simpler and then you will have a good tractor.

(quoted from post at 17:02:36 09/13/14) My Dad and I have added a 450 into our collection. The 450 sheet metal has seen some better days. We were thinking about cloning it into a Super MTA. What all parts are needed? I know I would need the gas tank, hood, grille, steering pedestal, and throttle...but what else am I forgetting?

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Even if you found a donor stage 2 SM for some of the parts, the extended hood alone would cost an arm and a leg. I imagine a good body man could take 2 hoods and make one, but then you still have to find 2 M/SM hoods. With enough $$$$, almost anything can be done (we put men on the moon, didn't we?), but why not just build up another 450 for a LOT cheaper and you'd have a more useable tractor at the same time.

I don't know where you're going to find 450 parts easier and cheaper than you can find M parts. There were about 350,000 potential donors for M parts vs. only about 27,000 450's.

The parts don't need to be off a Super MTA. You can use the hood grille and gas tank off a regular M if you want.

Is the Super MTA hood *REALLY* any longer, or is that a myth? Last time I checked a Super MTA at a show, the gap between the gas tank and steering pedestal was MUCH longer.

About the only part that will be hard to find is the hydraulic reservoir for under the gas tank. Then again, one vendor at the Red Power Showdown had TWO of them in stock.

Check your facts Matt. That regular M grill won't be a SMTA grill.

Yeah, and the tractor won't be an SMTA either. So what?

I would dare to guess that there have been a significant number of SMTAs that had their grilles replaced with ones off plain old Ms from the scrapyard over the years due to damage.

The only major difference is the two large holes, which a body man can add to any old M grille, or you can use the M grille to "complete the illusion" while you look for a real SMTA grille.

It's pretty simple to deal with the emblem: Fill the "Farmall" holes with Bondo, sand smooth, then punch two new holes for the "IH" emblem. BTDT, cuz my Super H Stage II has a plain old H grille on it.

True, but you didn't bring any of that up. You implied they were the same. If you are going to make a fake SMTA I guess why would you really care if you had the cultivator holes?

If a "SMTA" was my end game I would buy a couple M hoods, a grill, and a gas tank and call it close enough. Anything else would be a waste of time and money IMO.

Agree if you just want to make a user tractor or a nice one to suit yourself why worry about correct.
From what I can remember at the moment, other that some wire, control rods and hood longer. Grill, steering post, clutch pedal and shifting forks are the only SMTA gas parts not found on another tractor. Wasn't very many of some on other tractors but I said not found. Maybe the center steering bearing was a different number but some others work. Also casting numbers and date codes will be off for some parts. Also some argue whether a SMTA grill with holes punched came on late SM also. IH sold the MTA type as a replacement so it ended up on M and SM tractors also.
If you just want a user with M type sheet metal. Use a gas M front bolster, radiator shroud, lower coolant cast pipe, worm shaft and hood. Or shorten the frame rails 1.5 inches and re drill for bolster holes and use the SMTA-450 type bolster with the M parts. Put a 3/4 inch block under the steering post and use a 400 steering shaft if using the key type steering wheel.
Anyway you go a die hard IH person will know its not a genuine SMTA.

BTW, what is the difference in hood length between an M and an SMTA?

Can't be much because there's a HUGE gap between the back of the gas tank and the steering post on the SMTA, and almost no gap on an M or SM.

Frankly I think you could "fake it" with an unmodified M hood because the spatial relationship of radiator, engine, intake, and exhaust should be exactly the same from the M all the way up through the 450.

Again, it's a "user" tractor that's resurrecting something that otherwise would probably end up in a scapyard, done for someone's entertainment and fun. Nothing wrong with that.

Also need the hydraulic controls and plumbing off a Stage II Super M or SMTA. I believe the pump is okay, but every thing else will need to be replaced.

SMTA hood is close to 1.5 inches longer than a M, SM. All don't measure exactly the same, may very 1/16 to 1/8 inch.
Only reason the hood is longer is the upper bolsters used. When the SMTA bolster is bolted to the frame rails it sets everything forward of the fan forward about 1.5 inches compared to a M or SM gas bolster. Diesel bolsters were longer from the start, so all MD, SMD and SMTAD hoods are the same length as a SMTA gas.
When the SMTA bolsters started being used on SMTA non diesel tractors a different fan shroud was used, different steering worm shaft, different coolant cast pipe at lower radiator to engine, different length upper radiator hose, longer radiator top brace and a different center steering shaft bearing or casting. All the above was changed from the last SM gas tractors made. Reason the rear of the tank has more space between the steering post is the longer center housing, That also caused the rear steering shaft to be longer. Since they used the same shaft angle as a M the longer shaft ended up being higher at the steering post. That's why a SMTA one is about 3/4 inch taller. SMTA transmission top covers are the same casting as later SM tractors but the shift forks used with a SMTA with that top only work for a SMTA or SW6TA tractor.
Picture that a SM and SMTA used the same type engines and the same length frame rails. Fuel tanks and support is the same length from rear of engine on both. Front bolster is all that makes some things longer at front from the rear of the engine on a SMTA gas. So if you use SM or the same parts from another tractor in front of the engine you end up with everything the same as a SM from the fuel tank support forward. So then a SM hood fits the same as it would on a SM. Need to use the shorter SM steering worm shaft and correct center shaft casting to fit exactly as a SM. Hydraulic reservoirs used on stage 2 SM and SMTA have 2 sets of mounting holes for the rear fuel tank support about 5 inches apart. On a SM the rear set of holes is used. On a SMTA the front set is used because the longer center housing causes the reservoir to be mounted a longer distance from the rear of engine. Fuel tank is mounted the same distance from engine rear on both tractors.