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Super C Oil Change

J

JBlavl

Member
Trying to figure out how this is possible. Hopefully someone has a good explanation.

Changed the oil and filter on my Super C last weekend. Everything completely drained, oil looked like your typical used oil, nothing out of the ordinary. Same with the filter. Put it all back together, dumped 5 quarts oil in and ran it for about 30 seconds to move it back into position in the garage and left it. It's been sitting since Sunday untouched. I checked the dip stick last night and it is wayyyy over the full line for the engine stopped side. Oil looks clean as a whistle like it's brand new as expected. Only thing I can think is maybe the oil filter isn't full of oil yet? But I have a hard time believing it's going to absorb a quart or more of oil to bring the level down to the run range.

Any thoughts?
 
I hate to hit you with one of the worst possibilities, but I would
say loosen the oil drain plug enough that it starts to leak. See if
it is dripping antifreeze/ coolant. If so you'll need to find out
how it is getting in there. Generally from a bad head gasket.
 
I have no idea how much oil a Super C crankcase holds. I am
assuming that you put in the correct amount. Do you per chance
know how much oil you drained out?

Did the Super C have oil pan pet cocks? Is the dipstick a
replacement for same? Could the dipstick be wrong?

When changing oil I always add enough to show above add on
the dipstick or petcock. Then I crank and run for a minute or
two and check the oil again. I add as necessary and check again.
Run again, and make another check. When it shows full I crank
and run for a few minutes and make sure nothing is leaking and
then check again.

Crank your SC and let it run for a few minutes and check the oil
again. I don't think a half quart over will harm anything.
 
The oil filter should fill up pretty quickly. If you have a dipstick, which is rare on a Super C, just start the motor and let it run for a minute. If there's coolant in the oil, you will know. The oil will become "grainy" and eventually milky. I doubt that this is the issue.
Do you have the oil level indicator valves on the side of the oil pan? If so, open the upper one after warming the motor and see if you truly do have an excessive amount.
Finally, check your oil level in the hydraulic reservoir. I've heard that the lower seal can fail, dumping the hydraulic oil into the crankcase. It's unlikely this would occur at the same time you changed the engine oil.
As a last resort, use a funnel and your oil container and drain the new oil out to check for volume.
 
My 230 does the same thing. I just figured the oil filter, being above the pan, just drains the quart it would hold into the pan.
 
(quoted from post at 09:43:18 08/01/14)
Finally, check your oil level in the hydraulic reservoir. I've heard that the lower seal can fail, dumping the hydraulic oil into the crankcase. It's unlikely this would occur at the same time you changed the engine oil.
Click to expand...
It's the pump shaft seal that will leak oil into the crankcase if it goes bad. Pump is driven off the timing gears and that area is open to the crankcase.
 
Check your hyd fluid. Sometimes the pump can leak fluid past the seal into the engine. Mine did that until I repaired it.
 
I'm betting the hydro pump seal. It was probably over full when
you changed it (who checks it before they drain it?). I'd be
checking the hydro levels and not running it until you found out
what's up. I'm assuming you rechecked the dipstick (it sounds
like it must have one) several times. I have an engine around
here that has a good seal on the dipstick and if I draw it out
fast it pulls oil up the tube and reads wrong.
 
I will start by saying it is not the hydro oil seal. I know this because I am currently rebuilding the pump and it is not even on the tractor at the moment. I ran it for 30 seconds with my father holding a piece of cardboard over the opening to keep oil from splashing out.

I am leaning toward the comment about the oil filter draining back into the crankcase. I noticed when I removed the old filter very little oil came out of it, and in the orientation it was in, you would have thought a quart or better would have come out of it. There is no check valve that I am aware of. When I fire it back up again I will check the oil level with the engine running (opposite side of dipstick) and see what it says then.
 
I know you're not calling him a liar for saying he has a dipstick, gene...

Really, a Super C is not *SUPPOSED* to have a dipstick, and any reading that dipstick gives you is suspect.

Check the petcocks on the side of the oil pan for proper oil level.

To be on the safe side, you can also drain the oil into a CLEAN container to see if you still have 5 quarts. That way you don't have to throw it away if the amount is correct.

If it's exactly 5 quarts, your dipstick is marked wrong.

If there is a lot more than 5 quarts, it's hydraulic oil leaking from the front seal of the pump.

If it's part water, you've got bigger problems.
 
(quoted from post at 10:15:08 08/01/14) SUPER C does not have a dip stick it has petcocks in the pan for full and lower one means add oil.
Click to expand...

That is not true. My grandfather was the original owner and this tractor indeed has a dipstick, it is directly under the oil filter and oil pressure gauge. If I were home I would take a picture for you. It is a 123 engine, matched serial numbers and I rebuilt it about 10 years ago.
 
(quoted from post at 10:27:12 08/01/14) I know you're not calling him a liar for saying he has a dipstick, gene...

Really, a Super C is not *SUPPOSED* to have a dipstick, and any reading that dipstick gives you is suspect.

Check the petcocks on the side of the oil pan for proper oil level.

To be on the safe side, you can also drain the oil into a CLEAN container to see if you still have 5 quarts. That way you don't have to throw it away if the amount is correct.

If it's exactly 5 quarts, your dipstick is marked wrong.

If there is a lot more than 5 quarts, it's hydraulic oil leaking from the front seal of the pump.

If it's part water, you've got bigger problems.
Click to expand...

I completely drained the oil pan and filter and put exactly 5 quarts in it. Engine has only been run less than 1 minute since.

Hydro pump is not on the tractor nor was it on the tractor when I changed the oil so it's impossible to have leaked anything into the engine.

Coolant is right where it is suppose to be and I have added nothing.
 
Dipsticks were used on the power units and they did not have petcocks. Over the yrs many things have been changed on these old tractors i am old enough to know when they were new and what they had for original stuff and i do have some power units they all have a dipstick and not even a hole in the pan for the petcocks so did the dipstick show full when you started engine and ran so the filter was full. Like other post says drain the oil and check how much is there remembering the filter will hold some oil.
 
(quoted from post at 13:46:28 08/01/14) Dipsticks were used on the power units and they did not have petcocks. Over the yrs many things have been changed on these old tractors i am old enough to know when they were new and what they had for original stuff and i do have some power units they all have a dipstick and not even a hole in the pan for the petcocks so did the dipstick show full when you started engine and ran so the filter was full. Like other post says drain the oil and check how much is there remembering the filter will hold some oil.
Click to expand...

I don't know for certain if dipsticks were ever available from the factory on a Super C, but Dad bought a "new carry-over" 1954 Super C in early '56 and it still had petcocks. It had to be a very late Super C.
 
This situation kind of reminds me of a job I did one time. That would be back in about 1958 or 9. I did some engine work on a combine with that engine in it and in the process put in new oil and filter. Went by the book as to how much it was supposed to hold. Anyway, when customer came to pick it up, he checked the oil and said it is over full. How much did you put in. Told him and he said it doesn't hold that much, refused to pay for that extra quart and I drained it down to where he wanted it. He was kind of hard to get along with, but a few years later, I moved out into the country a few miles, right next to him and a couple other constant complainers and surprisingly, the complaints stopped. Became pretty good friends. Just saying.

At any rate, I would watch the dip stick as I put oil in that Super C and then you will know for sure what the dip stick is telling you, and yes, the filters will drain down on those.
 
Alright time to put this to bed. Had the SC out tonight for a little while. When I brought it back in the garage I shut it off and within a minute checked the oil level on the dip stick. It was exactly at the upper fill line. I'm going to conclude with the oil in the filter drains back into the pan when not used or it takes some time for the filter to get fully saturated after it is changed.
 
My 200 does the same thing and it came with a dipstick. 5 quarts may be a little much oil for these 123 motors.
 
Checked the oil again the next morning and it measured high again on the dip stick. Worked brush hogging for about 6 hours that day and checked the oil level again immediately after getting off and it was right at the upper mark of the full zone on the dip stick. Appears the oil in the filter drains down into the pan while it sits.
 
There is no provision to keep any oil in the filter when the engine is not running. The oil is metered going into the filter but the return side is not restricted.

If the engine serial number matches the chassis serial number the engine has been changed. They did not match from the factory. As far as it having a dipstick, it is possible that the block has been replaced with a service part and was stamped at the time of installation. New service replacement blocks did not have any serial numbers on them.
 
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