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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Thinking about getting a new tractor

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JRSutton

07-07-2014 10:43:42
71.174.108.252



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Would be used 100% for haying (small square bales).

pulling a haybine mower (which I don't own yet) - and a jd 24t baler dropping on the ground, no wagon attached.

Might want something to occassinoally pull a discbine, but thinking probably not since I don't want to spend more money for the extra horsepower on this one. (but since I don't really know what models to look at - not sure if it'd be a possibility - discbine needs a minimum of 90hp. assuming I won't want to buy something that big)

Areas we do are fairly hilly so we drop them on the ground.

I need something that'll EASILY handle the weight of the baler and or full wagons on the hills (nothing too radical, but some are enough to make you a little nervous going down with a full wagon behind).

I've used an M for years (and I'd call it a little on the light/underpowered side), alos use a JD 630 which feels closer to appropriate.

I like live pto.

I'm just not familiar with anything farmall after the 350/450 series.

560 - etc.

I'm not sure how the numbers even run from that point in history.

I know it's a very subjective question - but if you had to buy one do-it-all haying tractor (this one would do about 3000/4000 bales/year - don't ask me the acreage, lots of small fields)

And money was a prime concern...

What would you pick? Anything to avoid. I know the 560's had some rearend strength issues...

would like to hear other's opinions.

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KevinBfromIllinois

07-09-2014 12:43:08
173.20.194.215



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 Re: Thinking about getting a new tractor in reply to JRSutton, 07-07-2014 10:43:42  
Have had and still have my 560 bought new in 1963 never a lick of problems in the rear end pulled 4/16s pull type plow for many years has over 12000 hrs on it don't work to hard anymore just to small but that would be your best bet to get one.



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Centex Farmall

07-08-2014 06:26:28
72.105.161.19



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 Re: Thinking about getting a new tractor in reply to JRSutton, 07-07-2014 10:43:42  
FWIW, I believe a 560 makes a fantastic haying tractor. It will feel very familiar to operating the M-450.

As to the rearend: It is almost literally the same as the SMTA-450 only they moved the hydraulic pump into the rear and used the case as a reservoir. The "weakness" was a combination bearing and lubrication issue and the later S/N tractors came with the improved bearings off the assembly line.

Any 560 still going today has a high probability of having been updated. My grandfather used an earlier S/N 560 in a custom farming business for two decades with no problems and that machine is still going today. Dad also uses one as the primary tractor for his farming.

One of the updates on the 560 over the 450 is that it does have larger brakes. That said, they have the same issues as the SM-450 brakes when parts get worn.

Our 560's are diesel. The 282 diesel is simple and reliable but on the cold natured side. The glow plugs and wiring need to be in good shape for easier starting. It is thrifty on fuel though. The late Hugh Mckay of this forum said his was turned up to about 90 hp and ran about 10K hours like that (IIRC). I'm not that brave.
I know you are primarily thinking of a gasser but don't be afraid to check out a diesel version if you find one in good shape.

The 706 is a newer generation of tractor and even more updated as previously posted. In our area though a good one will easily be double or triple what a 560 will cost in the same condition. Partly that's a regional thing. Fair number of 560's in this area.

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JRSutton

07-09-2014 06:51:39
71.174.108.252



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 Re: Thinking about getting a new tractor in reply to Centex Farmall, 07-08-2014 06:26:28  
yeah - this is mostly a "backup" tractor so I don't want to go crazy on it.

So I'm thinking the 560 is exactly what I need... Although those 706's do look awful comfy... :)

I don't remember ever seeing a 706 around here. And I think you're right, if I were to find one, it'd be much more than a 560. I'm not sure I'd want to drive halfway across the country and tow one of those beasts back with me.

But again - not in any rush. I'm going to keep my eyes open.

I guess the big thing I needed to hear is that the 560 isn't a waste of time. I have seen a few of those around.

I wouldn't rule out a diesel, I just don't know much about fixing them - but I would't turn one done if the price is right.

Thanks again.

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JRSutton

07-08-2014 05:11:27
71.174.108.252



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 Re: Thinking about getting a new tractor in reply to JRSutton, 07-07-2014 10:43:42  
thanks for the replies - gives me more to think about now.

Not in any rush, I've got time to think it through. Thinking about next year.

My other problem is I live in massachusetts. I'm not likely to find whatever I decide I need anywhere around here. I've seen some 560's - but nothing else.

So then transporting it here becomes a big issue.



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kopeck

07-07-2014 18:58:15
71.161.74.152



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 Re: Thinking about getting a new tractor in reply to JRSutton, 07-07-2014 10:43:42  
Let me just preface this by saying I haven't owned either a 560 or a 656 BUT I've toyed with looking for something of that size in the past and I everything I've read leads me to think a 656 would make a fine working tractor.

The 560 is more a classic to me but the 656 would be more piratical and still pretty classic in it's own right.

You could get it in gas or diesel as well.

K

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rankrank1

07-07-2014 18:36:28
166.137.101.152



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 Re: Thinking about getting a new tractor in reply to JRSutton, 07-07-2014 10:43:42  
Since you are strongly considering a 560 gasser , then I would give a Farmall 706 gasser a strong hard look instead.
a) Fuel consumption will be real similar between the two.

b) 706 much more modern ergonomically.

c) 8 speed tranny in the 706. Only a 5 speed tranny in the 560.

d) Torque Amplifier if equipped and it works properly will double the speeds to 10 for the 560 and 16 for the 706.

e) The Low side of TA will free wheel on a hill on the 560. The low side of a 706 will not free wheel on a hill as it has the improved TA design.

f) 706 has a few more hp

Huge advantage to 706 in every way IMOP for likely similar money.
This post was edited by rankrank1 at 18:37:45 07/07/14.

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JRSutton

07-07-2014 14:51:06
71.174.108.252



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 Re: Thinking about getting a new tractor in reply to JRSutton, 07-07-2014 10:43:42  
to be clear, I'm NOT looking for something to operate the discbine.

(unless I could find something with 100hp that only cost me a little more than a 60hp or so tractor's going to cost me! and I think that's very unlikely).

I hay with a buddy who's got a jd 4020 - that's enough for the discbine.

What I'm trying to ask here is what else IS there by farmall??? I'm very familiar with the early tractors, but I don't know anything beyond the 450 series, other than I know of the 560.

What else IS there? Tractordata is letting me down - they usually have the "larger model" and "newer model" links, but not in this case.

I'd consider a 450 if I could find something with live PTO - but would like to look around for something a little bit newer.

I just don't know what to look FOR!

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ss55

07-07-2014 16:08:43
50.81.112.224



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 Re: Thinking about getting a new tractor in reply to JRSutton, 07-07-2014 14:51:06  
How big a bale wagon will you be pulling? Fourteen foot, 100 bale stacking racks or 20 foot, 200 bale thrower racks? Good brakes and enough weight to hold back a fully loaded bale wagon and baler are nice to have when baling on hills. It's also not unusual to have to down shift a 50-60 HP tractor when baling uphill with a nearly full bale wagon. A little extra HP lets you keep going to the top. If you have access to your buddy's 4020, I would consider using that on the baler when you are pulling a bale wagon. Your 630 will work, but the 4020 will get it done faster.

A IH 706 would be a nice,low cost, baler tractor for not much more money than an IH 400, 450, 560 or 656. A gas tractor should be $1000 less than a similar diesel. 4,000 bales a year shouldn't take over 15 to 20 hours a year to bale, so I wouldn't look for a diesel.

If you can consider other brands, many late 1950's to 1970 row crop tractors would do the job: Oliver 88, Super 88, 880, 1600, 1800, 1650, 1750, etc. Case 400 (the big rowcrop 400), 700, 800, 730, 830, 930, etc.

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JRSutton

07-07-2014 18:11:50
71.174.108.252



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 Re: Thinking about getting a new tractor in reply to ss55, 07-07-2014 16:08:43  
starting to lean towards the 560 gas - I think that'd be just right for what I need.

Any reason NOT go go with a 560 - I realize they had the weak rear end problem - so I'd look for something new enough to be a worry.

Any other issues?



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JRSutton

07-07-2014 17:26:12
71.174.108.252



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 Re: Thinking about getting a new tractor in reply to ss55, 07-07-2014 16:08:43  
This would be often used at the same time as the 4020 - on separate fields that are far apart. So using one or the other isn't really an option.

They'd both be cutting/tedding/raking/baling at the same time.

Hard to get into exact details - but it's basically a backup that will be used separately some of the time.

We stack about 120 bales per wagon - no kicker. We do EVERYTHING the hardest way possible. :)

I'm kind a partial to IH, not for any real good reason - I just like their old stuff. I just don't know their "new"(er) stuff. But you gave me a few numbers in there I don't recognize, so that gives me something to look at.

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Roy in UK

07-07-2014 13:29:06
86.161.144.86



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 Re: Thinking about getting a new tractor in reply to JRSutton, 07-07-2014 10:43:42  
By far the easiest disc mower to drive is The Lely. I think they are also made by Vermeer under licence in The U.S. (? ) We used to put our 8 foot model behind a Massey 168 and it would cut through anything in 1st high, high multipower without even a wisp of smoke.



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farmallhal

07-07-2014 12:51:00
76.2.172.107



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 Re: Thinking about getting a new tractor in reply to JRSutton, 07-07-2014 10:43:42  
I faced the same situation a few years back when I was upgrading to a disc mower. My New Holland dealer told me to forget a disc bine as something in the 85 hp. or so range would be needed and my largest tractor was only 65 hp. I have heard from various sources that the New Idea 5409 disc bine can be handled with something less so you might want to check into that model. My 8 foot NH 616 disc mower is enough for my 65 PTO hp. tractor especially in anything fairly heavy or tough to cut. For an IH tractor I think something in the 806 family (856, 866, 886, etc.) or larger would be sufficient for a disc bine. The disc bine certainly is the driver for the larger tractor. My Farmall 656 would probably handle all the other duties including a disc mower or hay bine very easily. Most hay equipment in this area is New Holland because of our supporting sales & service dealership is so supportive during our hay season. Hope this helps, Hal.

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